Israel has invaded Gaza...

[BlueStreak]

Religion is so evil.

Dave

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

I'm trying so hard to remember when any Jews flew any jetliners into any crowded American office buildings. You can pick and chose you favorite atrocities all you like Finn. It won't be changing my opinions on any of this. I will not question anything that Israeli Jews chose to do to protect themselves from the annihilation promised them by their poor victimized neighbors and the terrorists they support.

Those were Saudi's who did that. What did we do to retaliate? Invade Iraq. Brilliant.

It's pretty clear that you have an obstructed view when it comes to this conflict.

This series of maps shows what has happened to Palestinian lands in the past 60 years. The last map is from 14 years ago and there are lots more settlements now in the West Bank than there were then. Meanwhile, Israel continues to encourage immigration of Jews from around the world to establish more "facts on the ground" (settlements).

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Y'know TJ, I think we would agree that rancid butter though I may be, I'm typically on your side of the bread. That said, I gotta tell you that you're one of the most remarkable generators of false equivalencies I've run into in a long time. They're most often exceedingly entertaining...not this time though.

I don't think it's all that false.

Are you trying to tell me that Jews have had it worse than black people?

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Oh, woe is you? Somebody fire a mortar round into your neighborhood Bob?

Had a few rocket rounds fired into what I guess you would call my neighborhood, when I was in Nam. I didn't like it, but I never really hated the Viet Cong for doing it.

I think even at that young age I understood that we were over on their turf fucking with them.

The same thing with 9/11.

I didn't like being attacked like that but I can see where our going over there and fucking with them had a lot to do with provoking it.

What I don't get is how you can be so blind to Israels provocation.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

The same thing with 9/11.

I didn't like being attacked like that but I can see where our going over there and fucking with them had a lot to do with provoking it.

Not really. That attack was more about a rich kid's child feeling lost in a world of the privileged and trying to make a name for himself by adapting a cause.

Had he been an only child or daddies fav it would have never happened.

What I don't get is how you can be so blind to Israels provocation.

Let's break this down in VERY simple terms, Isreal is the bad guy. No one objective can deny this.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Those were Saudi's who did that. What did we do to retaliate? Invade Iraq. Brilliant.

Ever notice how many of the major architects of that war have dual US/Israeli Citizenship?

Now there's some food for thought.

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ess=103x332019

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

An occupation and subjugation of a people over decades is different in kind than a terrorist act.

Regards,

D-Ray

Sure. So you want to compare context? I'll compare context all you want.

Look man...it's personal for me. Too many aunts and uncles in the 50's who got out of Poland and Lithuania just in time. And on my mother's side an aunt and uncle who went through Kristallnact and other "subjugation" in Germany and just managed to get out with their skin still on after everything they had was either stolen or destroyed by the SA. A number of them emigrated to Israel in the late 40's/early 50's...and came back to visit from time to time talking about how fearful they were of being over-run and how similar the anxiety was to the 30's in Europe. The same bullshit all over again...and by design as far as I'm concerned. Finn can try to lecture me all about the conditions in Gaza...it's nothing compared to what I heard when I was a kid about the conditions for Jews in Germany, Poland and the Baltics.

So it's personal for me. You guys can pump all the Jew atrocities at me you like for as long as you like. I don't give a shit. I won't second guess anything the Jews of Israel do or have done to keep themselves alive.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Had a few rocket rounds fired into what I guess you would call my neighborhood, when I was in Nam. I didn't like it, but I never really hated the Viet Cong for doing it.

I think even at that young age I understood that we were over on their turf fucking with them.

The same thing with 9/11.

I didn't like being attacked like that but I can see where our going over there and fucking with them had a lot to do with provoking it.

What I don't get is how you can be so blind to Israels provocation.

You're doing it again TJ. Your experience in country in Vietnam has nothing to do with what's been going on in Israel since the end of the war. But I guess you're convinced that Israeli Jews hate Palestinians. All the Jews of Israel want is to protect themselves and to be left the fuck alone. They've agreed to cease-fire accords. They've returned chunks of land with the promise that the rockets and mortars and backpacks full of gelignite would end. And it never ends.

But you and I both know, whether you have the cojones to admit it or not...that the day the last rocket or mortar round is fired into an Israeli neighborhood will be the last day of any hostilities between the parties therein. And I would even suggest that the quality of life in Gaza would begin to improve almost immediately if weren't for the fact that the people of Gaza have their miserable existence because of who they've chosen for their leaders. For years...Palestinian Israelis who have the courage to offer it will tell you, "...the hell of Israel is way better than the paradise of Arafat." What Israeli Palestinians fear more than anything is that things will get so bad that their Israeli residency will be jeopardized.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

So it's personal for me. You guys can pump all the Jew atrocities at me you like for as long as you like. I don't give a shit. I won't second guess anything the Jews of Israel do or have done to keep themselves alive.

So what do or did you think on Netanyahu meddling in the US presidential elections. And can you justify the $3 Billion+ in military aid annually to Israel.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by BeamOn

So what do or did you think on Netanyahu meddling in the US presidential elections. And can you justify the $3 Billion+ in military aid annually to Israel.

I think Netanyahu should focus on what goes on in his country. What do you think of any foreign entities meddling in the politics of this country? Because they all do it...but isn't it easy to point a gnarly finger at some Israeli Jew politician, eh?

And I believe the reason why we provide the aid to Israel that we do is because of the deal struck after the '67 war. The Israelis and Egyptians agreed to no acts of aggression between them in exchange for aid from this country. That's why Israel and Egypt, and all of Israel's friendly, loving neighbors who get aid from this country continue to get the aid they get. And that's why there have been no hostilities between them since. So Egyptians and Jordanians and Syrians and the rest of them pump money for rockets and mortars and flying lessons in Florida into Hamas and Hezbollah and anybody else willing to commit a terrorist act now and then and on the borders of Israel, leave the Palestinians to do their dirty work for them.

If it were up to me...nobody would get any military aid from this country. The Jews and the Arabs in the middle east would have to either generate their own weaponry or throw fucking rocks at each other.