George Santayana was right.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by 4-2-7

Yes it is and able to be swaded into justifying any action. Hitler made the compass move did he not?

WTF does evolving morality in the USA have to do with Hitler?

[donquixote99]

Actually I think that was a cogent observation. Hitler and the Nazis were the most successful criminal organization of all time, taking over an entire great power, and for a time establishing powerful positions in a number of others. By which I don't mean that they conquered other states, but that they to various degrees introduced Nazism and Nazi morality into them.

Criminal gangs are everywhere, of course, but the unprecedented accomplishments of the Hitlerites demand explanation. And I don't mean simply his seizure of power in Germany (do not believe the misconception that he was 'elected.') I mean the way he succeeded in corrupting Germans by the millions. They weren't all just going along out of fear, you know. A big percentage bought into whole brutal power trip, at least while things seemed to be going well....

[piece-itpete]

Somewhat agreed, though a case could be made for the USSR too.

Pete

[4-2-7]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Actually I think that was a cogent observation. Hitler and the Nazis were the most successful criminal organization of all time, taking over an entire great power, and for a time establishing powerful positions in a number of others. By which I don't mean that they conquered other states, but that they to various degrees introduced Nazism and Nazi morality into them.

Criminal gangs are everywhere, of course, but the unprecedented accomplishments of the Hitlerites demand explanation. And I don't mean simply his seizure of power in Germany (do not believe the misconception that he was 'elected.') I mean the way he succeeded in corrupting Germans by the millions. They weren't all just going along out of fear, you know. A big percentage bought into whole brutal power trip, at least while things seemed to be going well....

Thanks that was very good.

Throughout history man has moved the moral compass and justified it every time.
Again I'm not religios but seems to me when it's abandoned man justifying leads to immoral behavior.
Just a thought.

[merrylander]

Georges Clemenceau of France imposed such excessive demands on the Wiemar Republic that the German currency went crazy. You could take your pay home in a wheel barrow only to find that it would barely buy a loaf of bread. So the German people were ripe for any snake oil salesman who would promise to fix the problem. ANyone who ever collected stamps would know how the currency crashed. A shining example of what happens when a nation is faced with huge payment demands they simply devalue the curency.

[MrPots]

Originally Posted by 4-2-7

Your highlight says Congress and nothing about religion staying out of government.

If it did we would have no one voting and no one to vote for.

You don't grasp that when the government in Arizona dictates that those with specific Christian views can willfully discriminate at will where otherwise it would be illegal and that the government is establishing a preferred religion and allowing it special privileges?

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Actually I think that was a cogent observation. Hitler and the Nazis were the most successful criminal organization of all time...

Almost any comparison to Hitler is a stupid comparison, particularly when comparing the evolution of our nation's moral compass (e.g., gay rights) to a man who systematically murdered untold thousands of homosexuals. I think "ignorant" characterizes his comment more than "cogent" does.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Somewhat agreed, though a case could be made for the USSR too.

Pete

As brutal totalitarians, the Commies are hard to put in second place. But I don't think that they ever quite matched the Nazis in the frank espousal of the criminal 'evil is good' attitude.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Almost any comparison to Hitler is a stupid comparison, particularly when comparing the evolution of our nation's moral compass (e.g., gay rights) to a man who systematically murdered untold thousands of homosexuals. I think "ignorant" characterizes his comment more than "cogent" does.

I see your point.

I was just running with the 'Hitler changed morality' concept, and rather overlooked the idea that 'what's going on in the US now is like the way Hitler changed morality in Germany.' The latter claim is too weird for me to grasp it easily, I guess.

However, the thing may be a good key for getting into the head of those persecution-complex Christians who hate and fear the change that is happening. It's often a good exercise to take something like that and ask "what does it take to believe that?"

[4-2-7]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Georges Clemenceau of France imposed such excessive demands on the Wiemar Republic that the German currency went crazy. You could take your pay home in a wheel barrow only to find that it would barely buy a loaf of bread. So the German people were ripe for any snake oil salesman who would promise to fix the problem. ANyone who ever collected stamps would know how the currency crashed. A shining example of what happens when a nation is faced with huge payment demands they simply devalue the curency.

Well the currency was inflating rapidly during the war (WW1) and went hyper afterwards. Yes when people are hungry the will do anything to survive. There was a war between religions in the Wiemar Republic as well. The people were pushing away from religion at the time. Since it doesn't fit well with there changing times. Quit an intellectual bunch, liberal Democrats, Marxism, Communist and So************************t Parties all vying for power. Hitler and the Nazi party were voted in by a predominance of Protestant.

Morality had degraded after the war.


Overview: Weimar Religion
http://weimar.facinghistory.org/content/religion

Weimar Germany had a population that was about 65% Protestant, 34% Catholic, and 1% Jewish. After German unification in 1871, the government had strongly favored the two major Protestant Churches, Lutheran and Reformed, which thought of themselves as state-sponsored churches. At the same time, the government had harassed and restricted the Catholic Church. Although German Catholics had only seen restrictions slowly lifted in the pre-World War I period, they nevertheless demonstrated their patriotism in World War I. German Jews, who had faced centuries of persecution and restriction, finally achieved legal equality in 1871. However, legal equality did not translate into social equality, and the Jews remained the “other” in Germany.

Catholics and Jews both benefited from the founding of the Weimar Republic. Catholics entered the government in leadership positions, and Jews participated actively in Weimar cultural life. Many Protestant clergymen resented the loss of their privileged status. While many slowly accepted the new Republic, others were never reconciled to it. Both Protestant and Catholic clergy were suspicious of the So************************ts who were a part of the ruling group in Weimar and who often voiced Marxist hostility toward religion. Conflicts over religion and education and religion and gender policies were often intense during the Weimar years. The growth of the Communist Party in Germany alarmed Protestant and Catholic clergy, and the strong support the Catholic Center Political Party had given to the Republic weakened in the last years of the Republic. While Jews had unprecedented opportunities during the Weimar period, their accomplishments and increased visibility added resentment to long-standing prejudices and hatreds and fueled a growing antisemitism.