The Affordable Care Act

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Interestingly, Harvard published a study in 2008 saying that 11 million Americans were essentially stuck in jobs they no longer wanted (in favor of retirement, different jobs or entrepreneurship) because of their need for employer-provided healthcare.

I believe that. I see that quite often. I'm not sure that I agree that 11 million of those folks would drop out of the labor force if they somehow got "free healthcare": single payer or otherwise. I do agree that we'd see quite a few of those 11 million drop out of the labor force because they might decide its easier to work less, and I can see the negative economic impacts of folks doing that.

[4-2-7]

Originally Posted by JBS...

Damn, we all should of listen to him... When did Beck start at fox?

Um, 2009. That's about the Tme Libs started claming he was a Gold Scammer.

hmmm, you might want to review your own chart there Bob. Price is still up

And if you would of sold early in 2013, Big Bucks

Yes and what you're actually seeing is not the value of the metals going up. Rather the value of the dollar going down because thats what this chart weighs it against. The chart would change if you look at other currencies.

So someone that says there dollar investment that gaine in a dollar denomination over the past few years really gained nothing because of the lose in value of that dollar.

Also physical metals that you hold has a premium greater than the paper chart.
Also there is no third party risk, nobody to delete your digital wealth. It's real!!!

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

I believe that. I see that quite often. I'm not sure that I agree that 11 million of those folks would drop out of the labor force if they somehow got "free healthcare": single payer or otherwise. I do agree that we'd see quite a few of those 11 million drop out of the labor force because they might decide its easier to work less, and I can see the negative economic impacts of folks doing that.

Agreed. Estimates cited by both you and me seem to peg the number at somewhere between 800K and 2 million.

During my morning exercise bike ride, I tuned into Fox News to see how they were reporting on this. Their report said that Nancy Pelosi knew in advance that the law would cause big job losses, but passed the law anyway (as the crawl across the bottom of the screen claimed that the report claimed 2 million job losses). They put up a video clip of Pelosi from ~2009 during the debate on the Act saying that one of its desirable advantages was that it it would improve worker mobility/choice for those stuck in jobs who would prefer other jobs, retirement or to start their own business. Somehow, they conflated Pelosi's statement as saying she'd pass the way, knowing full well that it would cause huge job losses.

Now that the newest estimate shows that the law is having this intended effect with negligible impacts upon employers' willingness to hire new employees while at the same time increasing worker wages/salaries, the GOP finds it necessary to completely mischaracterize what the report actually said in plain English.

[icenine]

Hey some people may quit their jobs to start their own businesses because they do not have to worry about employer-provided health care.

And besides it is not like the trend is toward more health care from the employer is it?
And if they take care of their workers better they might stay.

it may be a tough paradigm shift but a needed one? time will tell

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Now that the newest estimate shows that the law is having this intended effect with negligible impacts upon employers' willingness to hire new employees while at the same time increasing worker wages/salaries, the GOP finds it necessary to completely mischaracterize what the report actually said in plain English.

I suspect that' not the crux of the issue. The left wants to characterize (spin?) this effect of Obamacare as somehow "liberating" to the employee: They can cast off the shackles of that unwanted job and go pursue their interests. I think it remains to be seen how this will actually pan out. The CBO numbers are estimates, not actual. The actual effects / numbers likely won't be known for some time.

However, I think its dubious to frame the estimated impact as positive. I think Milbank actually swerved pretty to the crux of the issue here:

"Sounds nice, except the CBO said its more pessimistic workforce view had been shaped by recent studies, “in particular” those looking at “expansions or contractions in Medicaid eligibility for childless adults.” In general, the CBO explained, phasing out subsidies to buy health insurance when income rises “effectively raises people’s marginal tax rates . . . thus discouraging work.”

Citing studies that suggest raising marginal tax rates (whether that occurs due to a subsidy phase out or actually increasing tax rates) "discourages work" is likely that last thing that ardent supporters of big government solutions want to talk about.

[merrylander]

So if work is discouraged all these people are simply gong to quit their jobs because the have free healthcare. To the best of my knowledge Medicaid and Medicare do not provide free food or housing. Are you guys really serious?

Who will fill the jobs they vacate? The work still remains to be done. Or is it that the HR folks are afraid they will have to pay what the job is worth.

[4-2-7]

Originally Posted by icenine

Hey some people may quit their jobs to start their own businesses because they do not have to worry about employer-provided health care.

And besides it is not like the trend is toward more health care from the employer is it?
And if they take care of their workers better they might stay.

it may be a tough paradigm shift but a needed one? time will tell

I know you have some economic sense?
What happens when you have more going out than taking in?

How dose the government generate money?

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by 4-2-7

I know you have some economic sense?
What happens when you have more going out than taking in?

How dose the government generate money?

[whell]

Originally Posted by merrylander

So if work is discouraged all these people are simply gong to quit their jobs because the have free healthcare.

Some will, yes. I think that is what the CBO was saying. Some who can will shift from taking W-2 income to taking other forms of income, or getting paid in cash rather than taking W-2 wages. Some will decide they can make due earning less income. Nothing really new about any of this.

Originally Posted by merrylander

Who will fill the jobs they vacate? The work still remains to be done. Or is it that the HR folks are afraid they will have to pay what the job is worth.

Not if the Dems and Repubs keep pushing immigration reform.

[4-2-7]

Originally Posted by JJIII

Are you kidding that is this week? So taper QE4 by 20 billion and then print 600 billion all at once.