The Affordable Care Act

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by whell

BS, and more BS.

The "average" medical insurance plan has about a $1500 individual deductible, $3000 for a family. In an average plan year, less than 20% of participants in a typical insured group meet or exceed their deductible. That means that most folks covered under that group policy aren't treating for "complicated illnesses or injuries.". They are incurring costs more typically for scrpts and more routine medical services. That's where the opportunities for medical consumers to get engaged truly are.

Blah...blah...pfffffffttt...

Medical consumers having the opportunity to get engaged? What a bunch of horseshit phoney free marketer blubbering. The only medical consumers there outghta be are Medicare consumers. There shouldn't be any individual deductibles, or family deductibles or co-pays or prescription coverages or out of pocket costs for scripts. There shouldn't be any for-profit insurance companies involved. All medical provider groups and hospitals should be non-profit. Employment should have nothing to do with health care services.

The only way medical consumers should be getting engaged is that when they get sick or injured and require medical services they go get them and they're paid for out of tax revenues.

One of these days that's how it will be. And decades from now the people of this country will be looking back at how historically idiotic the people of this country were with their fucked up "health care" system. And those arguing as you do will be seen in the light of history as the most idiotic of all.

I probably won't live to see it, but I'm comforted by the knowledge that it's coming. It's coming just like voting rights for women was coming. Just like reproductive rights for women was coming. Just like universal marriage rights is in the process of coming (that one I will see in my lifetime).

[whell]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Blah...blah...pfffffffttt...

Medical consumers having the opportunity to get engaged? What a bunch of horseshit phoney free marketer blubbering. The only medical consumers there outghta be are Medicare consumers. There shouldn't be any individual deductibles, or family deductibles or co-pays or prescription coverages or out of pocket costs for scripts. There shouldn't be any for-profit insurance companies involved. All medical provider groups and hospitals should be non-profit. Employment should have nothing to do with health care services.

The only way medical consumers should be getting engaged is that when they get sick or injured and require medical services they go get them and they're paid for out of tax revenues.

And here we have the recipe for medical costs that continue to rise unabated.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Medical consumers having the opportunity to get engaged? What a bunch of horseshit phoney free marketer blubbering. The only medical consumers there outghta be are Medicare consumers. There shouldn't be any individual deductibles, or family deductibles or co-pays or prescription coverages or out of pocket costs for scripts. There shouldn't be any for-profit insurance companies involved. All medical provider groups and hospitals should be non-profit. Employment should have nothing to do with health care services.

The only way medical consumers should be getting engaged is that when they get sick or injured and require medical services they go get them and they're paid for out of tax revenues.

.

You nailed it.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

And here we have the recipe for medical costs that continue to rise unabated.

You don't need to try to convince us of the viability of your "plan." You need to convince a majority of the GOP lawmakers that they need to present a viable replacement plan before they continue their "repeal and replace" mantra. Until then, you're pissin' in the wind.

[merrylander]

Whell says "Single payer is just another form of cost shifting and managed care, where the consumer has no skin in the game. it's "far better" than a sharp stick in the eye, I guess."

And as usual he is full of it, have you even got a clue Mike? Have you ever lived in Canada?

SinglePayer simply made the government(s) the insurer - period. Doctors still practice as before, Hospitals still operate as before. I kept the family doctor of choice simply because he was close by and good. You keep on with this mumbo jumbo about the consumer having no skin in the game, Whose bloody skin do you think he/she is wearing?

Last year I totalled medical mileage (for tax purposes) for a simple meniscus tear - 400 freaking miles, two four hour waits in hospital for an ultrasound and blood tests (For the blood tests they had me strip an put on a hospital gown). Sorry but I fail to see how the delivery of healthcare could possibly be made worse here

Oh BTW Canada has perhaps 1% of personal bankruptcies caused by medical expense compared to over 60% here.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by whell

And here we have the recipe for medical costs that continue to rise unabated.

And here we have radio talkshow gasbag bullshit in spades. Do you need a list of EU countries (plus Canada) who have government sponsored single payer health care and who are spending half (or less than half) of the percentage of GDP that this country spends, and has been spending for decades before the ACA? Do I have to stuff this up your nose every time we get to this point in the discussion?

And...we've been paying twice as much for shit 35th to 40th ranking in life expectancy and infant mortality outcomes.

Are ya repeatedly being deliberately obtuse? Or are you just an ignoramus?

[whell]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

And here we have radio talkshow gasbag bullshit in spades. Do you need a list of EU countries (plus Canada) who have government sponsored single payer health care and who are spending half (or less than half) of the percentage of GDP that this country spends, and has been spending for decades before the ACA? Do I have to stuff this up your nose every time we get to this point in the discussion?

And...we've been paying twice as much for shit 35th to 40th ranking in life expectancy and infant mortality outcomes.

Are ya repeatedly being deliberately obtuse? Or are you just an ignoramus?

No. I'm laughing at your pre-programmed, talking point responses that just bounce from one side of the left-wingnut echo chamber to the other. And since you're starting to veer toward ad-homs, I'll assume that you've nothing productive or useful left to say.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

No. I'm laughing at your pre-programmed, talking point responses that just bounce from one side of the left-wingnut echo chamber to the other. And since you're starting to veer toward ad-homs, I'll assume that you've nothing productive or useful left to say.

Sorry, Whell, but he's demonstrably right and you're demonstrably wrong. Take a look at healthcare cost growth in the past 3 years compared to the years preceding the passage of Obamacare.



"All told, health care costs have been growing more slowly over the last three years than any other time period since 1965."

So much for unabated cost growth in healthcare.

[whell]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Whell says "Single payer is just another form of cost shifting and managed care, where the consumer has no skin in the game. it's "far better" than a sharp stick in the eye, I guess."

And as usual he is full of it, have you even got a clue Mike? Have you ever lived in Canada?

Yup, I do Rob. No, I've never lived in Canada but I do enjoy my visits there. Nice folks, beautiful scenery. Loved our honeymoon and then our 2nd honeymoon in the Canadian Rockies. Love to pop over to Windsor and take in the scenery from Assumption Park. Hate the casino over there. Love all the folks who cross the border from Canada to Detroit to come to work and shop. I also love the thousands of Canadians who come across the border to the US each year to receive medical treatment in the US.

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploa...011-ff0712.pdf

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Yup, I do Rob. No, I've never lived in Canada but I do enjoy my visits there. Nice folks, beautiful scenery. Loved our honeymoon and then our 2nd honeymoon in the Canadian Rockies. Love to pop over to Windsor and take in the scenery from Assumption Park. Hate the casino over there. Love all the folks who cross the border from Canada to Detroit to come to work and shop. I also love the thousands of Canadians who come across the border to the US each year to receive medical treatment in the US.

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploa...011-ff0712.pdf

Medical tourism isn't just a Canadian phenomena. In fact, 750,000 Americans go overseas for cheaper medical treatment every year.

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/medical-tourism

In fact, 3 neighbor couples all drove up to Montreal a few years back for Lasix surgery there. They payed for a week vacation there (with money left over) from the savings.