The Affordable Care Act

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Ah so, darn krauts and japs

I'm not saying we're pristine pollution wise, but I lived downwind of LTV steel in Cleveland in the 80s (now Mittal) and it was a LOT dirtier then. When it rained everything got covered in grey pasty stuff.

Also, my dad was a member of the clean water task force, a group of engineers tasked with cleaning up Lake Erie. The growing fish population is a testament to the progress there.

And, , they're finally cleaning up the old nuke warhead dump sites here. A beautiful job too, they don't just remove the contaminants and replace the soil, they actually design the land/terrain/drainage to recreate an ecosystem from scratch.

Pete

Pete

I remember when Youngstown was still running pretty strong in the '70s.
Step outside on some days and your mouth would fill with a metallic taste. I had an old-timer tell me once that that was why so many in his generation smoked. Tobacco was the only thing strong enough to kill that nasty taste....besides liquor.

That couldn't have been good.

Dave

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

You assume correctly.



Perhaps that's because you're not a property owner in NW Indiana where the state legislature continually rolls over and dies whenever BP or Arcelor/Mittal threaten layoffs if they can't dump more mercury laden sludge directly into the South Shore of Lake Michigan than they're already allowed. Perhaps you're not getting a good whiff of what comes out of Mittal's 24/7 blast furnace stack sitting between the otherwise pristine towns of Ogden Dunes and Duneacres. Perhaps you're not a concerned resident of Ludington Michigan, watching the coal fired SS Badger ferry sailing off for Manitowoc every day, knowing that halfway there, every day, she'll be dumping 4 tons of coal ash into the middle of our fresh water supply.



Uh...OK. But now my clinical interest has been aroused. What, exactly are you ready to slit your wrists over?



I suspect if you were unemployed, uninsured, and a home owner in Roane County Tennessee

or Libby, Montana

your attitude might be a little different.

Well of course my attitude would be a little different if it happened to me personally. I'd be pissed off, and expect those responsible to make it right. Just as I expect those responsible for your above examples to make those situations right as well.

What I see as aberrations you apparently see as the norm. The United States is gradually shifting to more ecological methods for supplying the means for a modern society. But it takes time, you can't just snap your fingers and make it so.

Like I said, I'm no crusader. We're headed in the right direction and we'll get there eventually. But let's not destroy society by forcing changes before they are economically feasible.

And to sedate your clinical curiosity, I suppose I would "slit my wrists" for the same reasons that most people commit suicide. Which would be when death appears to be preferable to continuing to live in pain. Or more likely in my instance, whenever the family curse of Alzheimers finally rears it's ugly head.

That makes an incredible amount of sense to myself.

Chas

[piece-itpete]

They'd already started heavy with pollution controls by the 80s, I'd hate to have seen/smelled it in the 70s.

I do remember though the Cuyahoga valley being alight with 100s' of little smokestack flames at night when I was a kid. By the 80s it was down to perhaps 50?, now there is 1 big flame.

It was open too. We used to drive around right 'through' the mill drinking Heck we'd stop on bridges over the Cuyahoga and party right on the bridge, in Cleveland city limits, with no fear. One place had an abandoned drawbridge, we'd have bonfires get snackered and see how far up we could climb it. Those days are O-VER.

Pete

[Charles]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

Chas,

I'm glad to see a hint of optimism flowing from your fingertips. And I mean that sincerely. Hope things are going well.

Regards,

D-Ray

Thank you, Don.

I don't think I'm any more optimistic, perhaps only more cheerful since I'm winning back some of my losses.

How goes the lawyer business? Making any big scores?

Chas

[Charles]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

They'd already started heavy with pollution controls by the 80s, I'd hate to have seen/smelled it in the 70s.

I do remember though the Cuyahoga valley being alight with 100s' of little smokestack flames at night when I was a kid. By the 80s it was down to perhaps 50?, now there is 1 big flame.

It was open too. We used to drive around right 'through' the mill drinking Heck we'd stop on bridges over the Cuyahoga and party right on the bridge, in Cleveland city limits, with no fear. One place had an abandoned drawbridge, we'd have bonfires get snackered and see how far up we could climb it. Those days are O-VER.

Pete

I remember back in the early 70's the smog in Denver was so bad that you couldn't even see the Rockies by 10:00 AM. They looked like someone took a big paintbrush and painted the horizon brown. I've been told it's no longer like that.

Even in Missouri we'd have ozone clouds that would almost blot out the sun in the summer. It's no longer like that either. The United States has made great strides in fighting pollution.

Now our slanty eyed cousins over in China aren't doing so hot in that respect. But at least Apple is turning a dandy profit.

Chas

[merrylander]

http://www.motherearthnews.com/natur...ell-berry.aspx

I saw this young man on Bill Moyers show (well he is 4 years younger) and I was impressed.

I for one will be happier when they stop cutting the tops off mountains to get at the coal.

[piece-itpete]

Agreed on the mountaintop mining, though they'll flatten eventually anyway.

Can you imagine how Lake Michigan must've smelled before they reversed the flow of the Chicago River? All those slaughterhouses!

Pete

[Rex E.]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

The top picture is the fly ash sludge flood from a ruptured containment pond in Tennesee.

The bottom pic is from Libby, Montana. Apparently the vermiculite mining companies in the area used large amounts of asbestos for some reason in their mining or processing and the entire Libby area is contaminated with it. High incidences of mesothelioma and other illnesses, and it continues to date.

That right there is a slow, cruel killer. Terrible watching someone waste away from it. And having a 40 year latency period is a sick joke as well. Work around it 30 years ago, waste away today. I'm sure hoping my days of abatement are not gonna come back to get me......

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

They'd already started heavy with pollution controls by the 80s, I'd hate to have seen/smelled it in the 70s.

I do remember though the Cuyahoga valley being alight with 100s' of little smokestack flames at night when I was a kid. By the 80s it was down to perhaps 50?, now there is 1 big flame.

It was open too. We used to drive around right 'through' the mill drinking Heck we'd stop on bridges over the Cuyahoga and party right on the bridge, in Cleveland city limits, with no fear. One place had an abandoned drawbridge, we'd have bonfires get snackered and see how far up we could climb it. Those days are O-VER.

Pete

Originally Posted by Charles

I remember back in the early 70's the smog in Denver was so bad that you couldn't even see the Rockies by 10:00 AM. They looked like someone took a big paintbrush and painted the horizon brown. I've been told it's no longer like that.

Even in Missouri we'd have ozone clouds that would almost blot out the sun in the summer. It's no longer like that either. The United States has made great strides in fighting pollution.

You guys are really something. The "It's So Much Better Now" crowd. Kinda reminds me of back a few years ago when they put my mother on Tarceva for the lung cancer and a few weeks later the oncologist tried to tell us that her cancer was better because she would probably live 4 more months instead of just six weeks.

I have this problem with mercury and coal ash being indiscriminately dumped into one of the most precious fresh water resources on the face of the earth. Maybe I'm all fucked up.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Rex E.

That right there is a slow, cruel killer. Terrible watching someone waste away from it. And having a 40 year latency period is a sick joke as well. Work around it 30 years ago, waste away today. I'm sure hoping my days of abatement are not gonna come back to get me......

I remember back in the day doing our own brake jobs and being covered in the dust coming out of the brake drums. But it's probably over 40 years since I've done any of that, so hopefully I'm in the clear.