Shots Fired at The Capitol?

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by whell

Well, at least he deleted the messages. You can still find messages on this board that still want to blame Fox News and Sarah Palin for the actions of that nut job Jared Laughner.

He took blatant advantage of a sad situation and exercised poor judgement. He is a member of Congress not a bystander.
Sorry, we disagree a lot on this forum.

[whell]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

And he remains the master of the false equivalency. Let's see, how many members of this board are members of Congress???

Regards,

D-Ray

None, of course. But I was referring to the sentiment expressed, not the jobs that our board members hold. But I suspect you knew that, oh Master of Spin.

[Rajoo]

Yes, I agree with his statement as to the state of politics in this country as being divisive.
I did not follow the Giffords case closely.

[piece-itpete]

It is a sad story.

If a person is trying to run over a cop they have every right to shoot to kill.

Pete

[whell]

Originally Posted by merrylander

A .357 magnum could stop the engine, they can penetrate an engine block. The police dumped enough lead into the landscape to pollute it for a century. Maybe you are happy with trigger happy cops around but I sure as hell am not.

BTW if he is 'pursuing' how in hell could she run over him?

You're either being purposefully obtuse or clueless. Did you see the video of the scene yesterday. Cops were trying to surround the moving car from all angles, guns drawn, yelling at the woman to stop the car and get out. And the car was moving the whole time.

Let me make this simple for you. Let's say you're one of the cops on scene, and you and your partners are trying to engage the perp and get her to come out of the vehicle. The car starts to turn and head in your direction. Do you think you or your partners are going to try to defend yourselves by shooting at an engine block that you can't see, and hope you hit it before you get run over? Or are you going to aim at the driver that you can see?

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by whell

You're either being purposefully obtuse or clueless. Did you see the video of the scene yesterday. Cops were trying to surround the moving car from all angles, guns drawn, yelling at the woman to stop the car and get out. And the car was moving the whole time.

Yes and no one was firing a shot or else they were way off in their aim. The shooting came at the other end

Let me make this simple for you.

ANd you are just the one who can do it

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by merrylander

A .357 magnum could stop the engine, they can penetrate an engine block. The police dumped enough lead into the landscape to pollute it for a century. Maybe you are happy with trigger happy cops around but I sure as hell am not.

BTW if he is 'pursuing' how in hell could she run over him?

How many of the officers there were carrying .357 Magnums? How many layers of sheet metal would a round have to go through before it reached the engine? How much energy would it have at that point? What shape would it be in after penetrating the sheet metal? Exactly where would you recommend they aim so as to hit the right spot? How can you be assured that it would not ricochet and cause damage somewhere else? If it did hit the engine, how do you know the engine would stop? (I once drove a Ford Tempo about 6 miles with one of the four rods broken completely in two.)

Too many variables IMO. YMMV.

[finnbow]

I don't think there's any police type service pistol that would go through an engine block, particularly with the soft point ammo they use. I would go through the fender and wheel well and that's about it. You'd probably need a .454 Casull with a FMJ round (it has 3X the energy of a .357 Magnum). Then the trick is to hit the exact right spot on a moving vehicle with this hand cannon that will damn near break your wrist shooting it.

The cops downtown mostly use the 40 S&W pistols. Their 500 ft-lbs of energy behind a 150-200 grain soft point bullet wouldn't even come close to penetrating an engine block. If they were using a 9mm Beretta (standard issue for the Army and NATO), it wouldn't even come close. It might put a small mark on the block or rupture a hose, but NFW would it penetrate the block.

To reliably take out an engine block, you pretty much need a 50 BMG.

[Zeke]

Yes, a .357 Magnum will penetrate an engine block but we're talking perfect conditions and "penetrate" is not the same definition as "disable," let alone immediately disable.

Sum? That idea is a non-starter from jump.

As for shooting the tires out, someone has been watching way too many movies. First, again, that does not disable the car. Second, even if standing there, do you have any idea how difficult it is to hit anything, let alone a moving target, with a handgun under stress?

"Accuracy" in such situations is considered within an 8.5 x 11-inch sheet of paper at 6-10 feet on a stationary target. (No, I am not kidding.) The sidewall of a tire is 3-4 inches, moving at a high rate, and must be struck at an angle that punctures.

Sum? That's not only a non-starter, it's a pipe dream.

You're in a public place, the driver is erratic and has already met the standard for her vehicle being used as a deadly weapon. She's been nuts at the White House and the Capitol? The training in this situation is stop the car.

I shoot her.

I may have nightmares for decades but this is my job.

I shoot her.

[HarmanKardon]

The incident reminds me of the end of Bonnie and Clyde. But I suppose they were armed, the mother in the car was not.

America, American police is very very very nervous currently. On one hand it is conclusive after what happened recently in Washington, on the other hand this cannot be the procedure in forthcoming similar incidents.