Congratulations America!

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

Yeah, and THAT'S the problem, IMHO. We have GOT to get away from the "Adversarial relationship" mentality that pervades almost every facet of our existance today-The idea that in order for ME to win, YOU gotta lose, sucka- And hopefully lose big-time. I trust the great collective wisdom of the American People a helluva lot more than I trust the Democans or Republicrats-We have been trying to tell the politicos something for YEARS now, but NEITHER side ever seems to "Get" it...

I completely agree and I'll sure admit that Democrats do their share of the same thing. Overall, though, when Republicans had majorities in both houses, Democrats rutinely go on board with a lot of their big agenda items- or at least didn't filabuster to block them. Yes, they were wrong to block some of Bush's nominees, and that's kind of the same thing.

But the result of that was an effort to kill conservative movement on social issues for the most part. Those were issues that they could come out and say "we don't agree with you". This is not an example of that. We've heard time and time again "we all agree something needs to be done". But all those years they were in power they didn't do anything about it. And even though the Democrats gutted huge sections of their plan in an effort to make it bi-partisan the Republicans just said no.

Why? Because they are lying. The do *not* agree that something needs to be done. If they did, something would get done.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Once again, how on earth did the GOP 'block' anything?

They had help from Democrats. Liberman was the one in the news all the time. But there were others. Add them to the one mind Republicans who guaranteed a fillabuster and you can block anything.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Wake up America. You did it again. You voted for the people who lie, cheat, steal and mislead you to disaster time and again. And you celebrate after you've done it.

That's alright. It's gonna be okay from now on. The Democrats are going to start calling the Republicans out on their lies. I know this because Stenny Hoyer said so this morning.

When have they ever even suggested that they might do something about it- Nixon is the last I can think of.

And before that you have to go back to TR. The thing you have to remember is that both RMN and TR were "Pre-Civil Rights Act Republicans". Ever since LBJ did the unthinkable and made racial equality the law of the land the Republican Party has been the home of racism in this country.

John

[piece-itpete]

Um, LBJ never could've passed civil rights without the GOP.

Pete

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Um, LBJ never could've passed civil rights without the GOP.

Pete

I think the emerging picture here is that it's difficult to get anything significant done if you can't get cooperation from the two parties. If the last several years are an example, one party seems willing to work and the other clearly is not.

Of course the Democrats may decide to call touche and shut everything down. As much as everyone says they're angy at both parties, the Libertarian in Mass. got single digit support. The major parties probably aren't terribly threatened.

So far the public is rewarding the party that has chosen to say "no" and not deviate from that message.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by HatchetJack

Can a normal blue collar hard working American buy in and be covered under
medicare?

no, and the public option is off the plate

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Translation "I voted against my own best interests". Our schools have failed, most Americans would not recognize a socialist if one bit them on the arse.

I'm guessing that Rob and I are the old codgers here, perhaps by a good bit. The thing that gives us, beyond a little "arthuritis" is some perspective. In our lifetimes we've seen America, a great nation of unlimited possibilities, with a people who cared about one another, who were proud to be Americans, become a small and narrow place where party affiliation is more important than national identity and where "individual rights" trumps the collective good every time.

When I think of the America I grew up in and compare it to the one my grandchildren are burdened with it makes me want to weep. We are going to "me" ourselves into irrelevance first and oblivion last.

John

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by noonereal

This is the wrong bill at the wrong time gone about in the wrong way.
Single payee was never an option. The best healthcare plan in the US is medicare and the Dems let the GOP vilify it. This is a terrible lesson in legislating.

Wrong bill but a beginning. If not now, when?

The GOPsters vilified Medicare until this recent health care debate. Then they said that one of their aims in resisting reform was to protect that much beloved program.

The cognitive dissonance that Republicans and their supporters will countenance is utterly mind numbing. What is it with these people?

John

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

I think the emerging picture here is that it's difficult to get anything significant done if you can't get cooperation from the two parties. If the last several years are an example, one party seems willing to work and the other clearly is not.

Of course the Democrats may decide to call touche and shut everything down. As much as everyone says they're angy at both parties, the Libertarian in Mass. got single digit support. The major parties probably aren't terribly threatened.

So far the public is rewarding the party that has chosen to say "no" and not deviate from that message.

It does make sense that the parties can't get along very well as the public is so evenly divided. If one says black, and the other white, how on earth is there a compromise? OK grey, bad example

My take on all this is that the average voter wants the grey and gets too uncomfortable with the edges. This includes both parties (so the GOP better not go off the deep end after this!).

Perhaps cloture would be better off dead.

All you old guys ( ) from what I've read you where lucky enough to grow up in a relatively bipartisan time. The dirtiest campaign now still pales to campaigns of yore.

Pete

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

The idea that in order for ME to win, YOU gotta lose, sucka- And hopefully lose big-time. I trust the great collective wisdom of the American People a helluva lot more than I trust the Democans or Republicrats-We have been trying to tell the politicos something for YEARS now, but NEITHER side ever seems to "Get" it...

Sandy, it's worse than that. It's become more important for the other side to lose. "Your loss is more important than my gain."

It's mind-boggling! Frankly, the people are at least as guilty of this thinking as are their "representatives". Look at the Tea Partiers.

John