The battle that broke Hitler's back.

[Dondilion]

Kursk July 1943

In July of 1943 The Soviets and Germans engaged for 2 weeks in one of the
biggest battles of WW11. This one was huge and when it concluded Germany was forever broken.

Germany won the battle but in strategic terms lost.

Commanders: German - the wily Manstein, Model the criminal

Soviets - Zhukov the butcher, Vatutin and the great Rokossovsky

http://www.2worldwar2.com/kursk.htm

[BlueStreak]

Zhukov is one of my favorites. Brutal bastard.

"If it has a heartbeat, shoot it.........even the children. Remember, little Nazis grow up to become big Nazis."

Dave

[Oerets]

It was really over when he invaded Russia in Operation Barbarossa. Just took awhile.



Barney

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Oerets

It was really over when he invaded Russia in Operation Barbarossa. Just took awhile.

Barny

It is tempting to agree based on the two front liability and vast space of the Soviet hinterland, but the Germans failed to organized the mass of people who came out to greet them in Barbarossa. Their cruel treatment of these folks turned them against Germany.

[piece-itpete]

Hitler was going to starve them all anyway.

I've heard tell that if he would've stuck to his original invasion plan he might well have beat them. There was a delay that moved the start out a couple weeks and put it too close to winter. Even still it looked bad enough to make the coward Stalin run like the rat he was.

Hitler was already at the point of madness where he was irrational. And thank God for it.

Pete

[Rex E.]

There is a very fun module for this battle in the old Avalon Hills "PanzerBlitz" game.

I loved playing the old Avalon Hills war strategy board games. Wish there was someone around that still enjoyed playing them.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

It is tempting to agree based on the two front liability and vast space of the Soviet hinterland, but the Germans failed to organized the mass of people who came out to greet them in Barbarossa. Their cruel treatment of these folks turned them against Germany.

Of course the Nazis snubbed them. The Nazis viewed Russians and Slavic peoples in general as "subhuman".

Hitler was only good at one thing, manipulating the masses. As a military "Commander-in-Chief" he was horribly incompetent. Much like Stalin, in that regard.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Hitler was going to starve them all anyway.

I've heard tell that if he would've stuck to his original invasion plan he might well have beat them. There was a delay that moved the start out a couple weeks and put it too close to winter. Even still it looked bad enough to make the coward Stalin run like the rat he was.

Hitler was already at the point of madness where he was irrational. And thank God for it.

Pete

It was best for the Soviet people that Stalin tucked tail and ran. That left his generals, what was left of them anyhow, to conduct the war without his meddlesome interference.

Dave

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

It was best for the Soviet people that Stalin tucked tail and ran. That left his generals, what was left of them anyhow, to conduct the war without his meddlesome interference.

Dave

He was consistently informed that the Germans were about to invade but just did not believe the time table. When it happened the Soviets were caught napping and Stalin lost his nerves.

Prior to WW11 Stalin decimated his officer corp with purges. The war with the Finns exposed the effects of these purges.

To find competent officers the Soviets had to go to the gulags.