Zimmerman trial starts today.

[bobabode]

Oh my, Zippy's MMA coach says George was a one on a scale of one to ten. I wonder if he wailed and cried for help at the gym?

[Charles]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Chas, whell, I think the heart of the disagreement is, we somehow went from being a society where we hired the cops as an extension of our power, now, they are the power and we have no 'right' to protect ourselves - AND our property.

We work for the government and that's fine to many, it's easier.



Agreed wholeheartedly. Could you imagine the reaction of the really left areas? They'd rather kids died then discuss guns.



ROTFLMAO!!!!



Very well said. And they say to quit drinking. My daddy didn't raise me to be a quitter!

Pete

That's gonna be my excuse from here on out!!!

Chas

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by whell

Its not about being "dim". Its about the prosecution making its case for anything from 1st Degree Murder to Manslaughter "beyond a reasonable doubt." Folks like you, noone, had already decided this case when the story first broke and before all of the facts had been fully vetted. You'd probably never have sat in the jury box for this case because you'd never have survived jury selection if you'd answered the questions truthfully about whether you could keep an open mind during the trial. But if you had sat in the jury box, you'd have to listen to hours of testimony, and you'd have to decide whether all of the fact could lead you to a conclusion that - beyond a reasonable doubt - Zimmerman committed a crime as defined by the law.

I have no idea what the jury will decide in this case. I see some of you are already attempting to advance a narrative that suggests that an acquittal on anything but murder one might mean that the jury was "dim". However, there are a number of reports that I've heard that suggest an objective analysis of the trial leaves a lot of room for the jury to acquit, because the prosecution did not make their case "beyond a reasonable doubt".

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...2#.UdnkHz7DVoY

And just because someone is let go, doesn't necessarily mean they are innocent. The last time I had jury duty we ended up letting a man walk whom we all knew darn well was as guilty as a day is long.....But, there was a "shadow"...No one actually saw him holding the gun, except his friend who refused to testify. (Charge: Convicted felon in possession of a firearm.)

So, even if Zimmerman gets away with it, he is still guilty, IMHO. He could have prevented the altercation at any point by simply staying in his vehicle.

He set the stage.

Tell me something. Especially you, Chas. If you don't care, as you stated, then why is it so important to you that Zippy walks?

I firmly believe Zimmermans actions were deliberate, and I want to see him go to jail.

What is it that motivates you?

Dave

[barbara]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

And just because someone is let go, doesn't necessarily mean they are innocent.

Dave

Ain't that the truth....
Reminiscent of OJ .....

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Chas, whell, I think the heart of the disagreement is, we somehow went from being a society where we hired the cops as an extension of our power, now, they are the power and we have no 'right' to protect ourselves - AND our property.

We work for the government and that's fine to many, it's easier.



Agreed wholeheartedly. Could you imagine the reaction of the really left areas? They'd rather kids died then discuss guns.



ROTFLMAO!!!!



Very well said. And they say to quit drinking. My daddy didn't raise me to be a quitter!

Pete

Still swerving into that righthand guardrail, I see. How's about you gun nutz keep your shootin' irons at home so you can lawfully protect your own damn property? I'm still not convinced that the rest of Zippy's neighborhood knew he was their night watchman...

You want guns added to the elementary school curriculum, who's going to pay for that? Not your party, that's for sure. I won't even dignify the last sentence other than to say, come on...really?

LMAO!! Ladies don't let yer babies grow up to be cowboys...

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Chas, whell, I think the heart of the disagreement is, we somehow went from being a society where we hired the cops as an extension of our power, now, they are the power and we have no 'right' to protect ourselves - AND our property.

You are confused Pete, this trial is not about self defense. It's about killing an unarmed innocent kid after stalking him.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

And just because someone is let go, doesn't necessarily mean they are innocent. The last time I had jury duty we ended up letting a man walk whom we all knew darn well was as guilty as a day is long.....But, there was a "shadow"...No one actually saw him holding the gun, except his friend who refused to testify. (Charge: Convicted felon in possession of a firearm.)

So, even if Zimmerman gets away with it, he is still guilty, IMHO. He could have prevented the altercation at any point by simply staying in his vehicle.

He set the stage.

Tell me something. Especially you, Chas. If you don't care, as you stated, then why is it so important to you that Zippy walks?

I firmly believe Zimmermans actions were deliberate, and I want to see him go to jail.

What is it that motivates you?

Dave

If Zimmerman is guilty, I hope he doesn't walk.

It IS possible that he was simply trying to do the right thing, and notify the police to a suspicious character...I believe he does live in a high crime area. He might possibly be no more than a good neighbor.

Besides, he already had walked. The incident was investigated by the local authorities and no charges were brought forth.

Then the DOJ got involved, and the media got involved, and Rev Al, and every other swinging dick and his dog. We were shown the file photo of Trayvon whenever he was 12 yrs old several times a day. He was an angel, and Zimmerman was a cold blooded child killer.

Then the real pictures came out, the one's when he was 17 and looked like a thug. "No limit Nigga", isn't that what he called himself?

And the media, once they figured out that Zimmerman wasn't REALLY white, began calling him a "white hispanic".

While you firmly believe that Zimmerman was deliberate, which I assume means that he killed Martin on purpose...I tend to suspect that he was just trying to do the right thing, and the situation deteriorated. All in all, a pretty decent fellow at the wrong place at the wrong time.

And I STRONGLY dislike how this has become a political and media driven circus created to stir up animosity before the election and make some money on the side. And I detest show trials, which is all that this is. And, as Finn pointed out, a proxy fight over gun control.

I can understand you side's point, if not for outside intervention a cold blooded killer would walk free. I tend to think that Zimmerman conducted himself in a manner as any other rational person would have under the same circumstances. But we weren't there, so let's see how the trial plays out.

But anyway you look at it, the government & media have whacked the hornet's nest with their big stick, and have run off and left the citizens to deal with the aftereffects.

And if the cities do go up in flames due to their meddling, the government can use this as an excuse to further suppress our rights, and the talking heads will run their yaps until they develop laryngitis.

At times, I get irritated at the arguments over this trial, but what infuriated me is that, once again, we're being led down the prim rose path...and everyone is too busy fighting with one another as to see how we are, once again, being manipulated.

There are where my concerns lie. Along with a desire to see everyone involved in this incident be treated fairly...although we're long past that.

Well, there it is. I've done my best to not only explain my viewpoints, but to craft a rational argument as to why I have them. And since I've done this several times, I'll not be doing it again...it's a lot of work.

Chas

[barbara]

Charles, if Zimmerman was simply trying to 'do the right thing' he would not have left his vehicle when he was told not to follow the kid.

That action, in my opinion, is the turning point, when Zimmerman turned from concerned citizen to a stalker intent on proving something.

And, the fact that he wasn't immediately charged only speaks to the good ole boy attitudes and the fact that Zimmerman was able to throw around enough law enforcement jargon that the responding cops believed his lies.

I know that past history probably can't be considered in this trial, but this is not the first time Zimmerman has gotten into trouble because of violent tendencies. He was arrested for resisting a police officer with violence (charges were reduced to resisting an officer without violence) and a past fiancé filed a restraining order due to alleged domestic violence. Lucky for Zimmerman his daddy worked as a court magistrate and had enough connections to keep him out of jail.

[Rex E.]

Originally Posted by barbara

Charles, if Zimmerman was simply trying to 'do the right thing' he would not have left his vehicle when he was told not to follow the kid.

That action, in my opinion, is the turning point, when Zimmerman turned from concerned citizen to a stalker intent on proving something.

And, the fact that he wasn't immediately charged only speaks to the good ole boy attitudes and the fact that Zimmerman was able to throw around enough law enforcement jargon that the responding cops believed his lies.

I know that past history probably can't be considered in this trial, but this is not the first time Zimmerman has gotten into trouble because of violent tendencies. He was arrested for resisting a police officer with violence (charges were reduced to resisting an officer without violence) and a past fiancé filed a restraining order due to alleged domestic violence. Lucky for Zimmerman his daddy worked as a court magistrate and had enough connections to keep him out of jail.

Bingo!

That is the crux of the biscuit. Anyone who says he was "doing the right thing" after he was told by the right people to stay still, is not being honest with themselves, you or me.

[finnbow]

I'll admit to a certain level of bias against Zimmerman as a result of all the BS spewed by media and how I've chosen to interpret it. However, I fundamentally agree with Chas' take on this being a show trial created by the media and special interests group to increase their business and agenda, respectively.

I would be perfectly happy not to hear another thing about this trial until the verdict is read. At that time, a 10 minute reasoned debate about the evidence and verdict by a couple of decent legal minds would suffice for me. Until then, I'm totally tuned out.