The Pope Resigns

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Did he faceplant off a motorcycle?

Pete

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ72tSlnXAA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvvwNR3vF44

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...KvponqV4Q&NR=1

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by finnbow

A visit to the Vatican Museum is enough to make anyone question the motives and history of the Catholic Church. It makes the Crown Jewels and other baubles at the Tower of London look like the goods at a shabby Goodwill store.

"Indulgences" my Brother. Indulgences.

Dave

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Wow. A whole bunch of deletions with responses........

Dave

His Mom finally figured out what he was up to in his spare time.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by bobabode

His Mom finally figured out what he was up to in his spare time.

I thought he said he was 44? Well, that would snuggly fit the hypocrisy of the right, wouldn't it? Bellowing about self reliance, rugged individualism and all that hullabaloo and still living off his mother at 44.....................

"Yeah? Well I'd finally get my own place if I could get a JOB!"

Regards,
Dave

[bobabode]

Bam!:d

[piece-itpete]

John I'll try to watch those tonight.

Pete

[mini me]

I guess I should have known that this thread might bring out those who are quick to point out the failings of the Catholic church, and of religious beliefs in general. There are plenty of faults to point out, getting stuck in such thinking glosses over / minimizes the good works that churches and spiritual folks do on a regular basis. Most of those works go largely unnoticed and under-publicized, and are overshadowed by salacious stories like the horrid sexual abuse scandals.

I never posted in this thread my thoughts on this, partially because I wanted to see what other folks thought, and partially because I was traveling for work. So, for what its worth:

First, as a Catholic that was raised in the church and still practices (sort of), I regard the church as a bit of an anachronism. The church is an institution that has grown and evolved for 2000 years. However it got to where it is today, any organization, and particularly those organizations who have been around for a very long time, find that change is very hard, and very painful, and very slow.

Many regard the churches beliefs as totally "old school" and out of step with the times. Some of those beliefs are rooted in the spiritual (such as views on when life begins), and others are rooted more in tradition (role of women in the church). As was pointed out earlier in the thread, some of those traditions are evolving, albeit quite slowly, such as allowing married priests to serve. While such change is slow to occur, it does demonstrate the change is possible, and in some areas, probable.

Now, from the perspective of church tradition, the resignation of Benedict strikes a hopeful chord with me. While some outside the church might look at his resignation in the context of their current experience where folks quit jobs all the time and its no big deal, a papal resignation is a huge deal. From the perspective of conservative Catholics, the concept of papal infallibility is challenged by the resignation of a pope. Its hard to reconcile the concept that on February 28, 2013 he'll be considered infallible, but on March 1, 2013 he'll be a "regular guy" an will be fallible.

Now, I've always regarded the concept of papal infallibility as a bit of BS. But it is derived from the Bible (Matt 16:19) and Catholics interpret this as Christ giving to Peter (and by extension to subsequent Popes) the grace by God to carry out the will of God on earth. However, Peter also had failings that are well documented in the Bible. And history tells us that Popes were involved in all manner of nastiness.

But the fact remains that church conservatives are concerned about this. Benedict is also among the most conservative Popes in recent history, and he fully understands the issues that his resignation creates for church doctrine. So, and this is speaking a bit hopefully, is this Benedict symbolically and quite publicly poking Church doctrine in the eye? In making his final act a resignation, is he potentially making a statement to Church conservatives that it is incumbent on them to follow his example and be prepared to challenge the validity of Church doctrine and tradition in today's more educated world?

Frankly, this Catholic believes that the church is not anachronism. However, the only way you can lead change in an organization and make it more relevant is from the inside. As a Catholic, it is troubling to me that I don't know clearly what the church's mission is, what role it wants to position itself to play in the lives of its members and the world in the foreseeable future. The Church can no longer play the role of king-maker or enforcer. It must win the hearts and minds of individuals - both Catholic and non-Catholic - if it wants to continue to be relevant.

Just an FYI / personal opinion: I don't find honor in reveling in the failures of individuals or institutions, so I don't find honor in "piling on" the Catholic Church. I think the folks that have been wronged by the church have the right to have their issues litigated and resolved, but not all priests are pedophiles and the Church need not be regarded as a wholly corrupt institution because it has not handled these issues appropriately.

[piece-itpete]

That's a great post mini, thanks.

That there are huge lapses in the Catholic Church over its' long life are true, but it's easy to forget just how much charity work it does.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

I think if organized religion as a whole were to disappear entirely, it would make little difference. Except to say that billions of chronic sinners would have nowhere to go and purge their guilt. And conservative politicians would have fewer ears to spout their sanctimonious hooey at................

Regards,
Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

That's a great post mini, thanks.

That there are huge lapses in the Catholic Church over its' long life are true, but it's easy to forget just how much charity work it does.

Pete

Really? Point at it. And, by that I mean currently.

Regards,
Dave