Global Warming?

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Combwork

Incidentally. In the time of King Canute, kings were thought of as almost divine, all powerful. I've read that what he was doing was not to try to stop the tide coming in, but to show his Court that King or no King he could not prevent the tide coming in and implicitly that no one could.

Hi, Combwork! Long time!

Your understanding of King Canute's message is correct but are you saying that we should all be like him when it comes to climate change? Should we just throw up our hands and say, "God's will!" and then go back to what we've been doing?

John

[Oerets]

Originally Posted by Combwork

I've a basic problem with this, well two actually. First, is there any record of anything like this occurring over the same time period in say, the last 1000 years?

Second. Is it caused by us or not? It's an important question. If we're causing it we might be able to stop it getting any worse, maybe in the long term even reverse it but if it's not caused by us and is likely to carry on going no matter what we do, all I can think is that instead of trying like King Canute to prevent things that we can't prevent, we should be working out the best way to deal with the consequences. How to deal with political boundaries if previously cold areas warm up (frozen tundra in Siberia shows that at one time it had a temperate climate) and vice versa.

Incidentally. In the time of King Canute, kings were thought of as almost divine, all powerful. I've read that what he was doing was not to try to stop the tide coming in, but to show his Court that King or no King he could not prevent the tide coming in and implicitly that no one could. When it came in, instead of trying to prevent it, people had to figure out the best way to deal with the consequences.

We are living in the now, and steps can be taken. The weather statistics I have seen show a gradual increase in temperatures over the last 1000 years, but in the last 50 a drastic increase. A never before seen increase in such a short time.

Just last night on the national news was announced this year is the warmest ever recorded in the USA. I know in my lifetime the weather pattern have changed to be warmer. I haven't needed my big winters coat in at least 5 years or more. Granted this will not be true for everyone everywhere right now.

But with the gulf stream slowing down and Islands in the Pacific disappearing and add the ice melting on the polls. We should see something is going on in the worlds environment with the trend to the warm side.

In physics it is taught that nothing is lost. So for every barrel of oil weighing on average 306lbs and just the USA using 18.8 million barrels a day that is close to 57,640,799,999lbs going somewhere. Now that is just one day on average in the USA.

I can burn an incense in my house and that little bit of smoke makes it's way all throughout the house. So to the smoke and ash caused by burning fossil fuels has to be building up in our atmosphere one would think.

The human animal has always in general used up the resources then moved on to greener pastures. Whether this is do to the historically abundance in the past or just ingrained in our nature will be shown with this problem. Because we are at a point where we are using up the planet and with out an other one handy we will be in trouble.

This to me is just putting of the painful job to another person to handle. What harm is there in going more green? Getting rid of plastics for everyday throw away trash. Or going to a more renewable energy sources. I know we in the US are very wasteful and I try not to be everyday in my actions. But I see everyone else around me going on as if there is no tomorrow.





http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/02/...ut-us-and-oil/



http://www.global-greenhouse-warming...d-climate.html

http://www.causesofglobalwarming.net..._and_data.html


Barney

[budgetaudio6]

hasnt the globe been warming since the last ice age? like come on people. Think Global Cycle. and forget human propagation in this matter!

[Combwork]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Hi, Combwork! Long time!

Your understanding of King Canute's message is correct but are you saying that we should all be like him when it comes to climate change? Should we just throw up our hands and say, "God's will!" and then go back to what we've been doing?

John

No I'm not. I'm saying that we should try to figure out the cause, and how best to react to it.

Best case? We caused it and in the long term can stop it getting worse.
Worst case? It's not caused by us, we don't know how long the trend will continue, and we have to deal with continuing global climate change without fighting each other.

Politically it might even work to our benefit, get us working together instead of dumping problems on each others doorsteps. "My enemies enemy is my friend" and all that jazz.

[beej]

Climate change is a reality. We could go back and forth for days about the causes but the reality of it is indisputable. I think it is vitally important that we do whatever we can do to reduce our negative impact on the process.

[bhunter]

Originally Posted by Oerets

Just last night on the national news was announced this year is the warmest ever recorded in the USA. I know in my lifetime the weather pattern have changed to be warmer. I haven't needed my big winters coat in at least 5 years or more. Granted this will not be true for everyone everywhere right now.

But with the gulf stream slowing down and Islands in the Pacific disappearing and add the ice melting on the polls. We should see something is going on in the worlds environment with the trend to the warm side.

In physics it is taught that nothing is lost. So for every barrel of oil weighing on average 306lbs and just the USA using 18.8 million barrels a day that is close to 57,640,799,999lbs going somewhere. Now that is just one day on average in the USA.

Consider the 93 million barrels of oil used per day worldwide and run some quick numbers. Assume 100 percent of combustion products makes it into the atmosphere and use the current 93 billion of barrels a day figure for 100 years. Calculate that mass and divide it by the mass of the atmosphere. You'll find it only amounts to ~0.009% even with assuming oil was used at the current rate for the last 100 years and that all of its mass reached and stayed in the atmosphere. Thus, our contribution of mass to the atmosphere is quite small. The response space possible in perturbing such a complex system with multiple possible feedback paths is rather large and difficult to accurately model without making simplifying assumptions. Despite all the modeling gyrations that climate scientists do, it is still a complex system that is not amenable to long range predictive forecasts IMHO. That said, both climate change and the greenhouse effect are real, but whether we did or can cause a change is still not clear given the inherent difficulties in modeling the system. Perhaps there are other, more simple, explanations for the relatively recent apparent climate change.

[Oerets]

Considering that Ozone averages about 0.000004% of the atmosphere and we all know the effects it has over our lives. Then about 0.03 percent of the Earth's atmosphere consists of carbon dioxide which is increasing with the use of fossil fuels as we deforest the oxygen producing plants.

Like I stated before it is in the human nature to use up and move on. Done many times before but this it seems this one could be the last!

Liberal as I am, it seems I want to be "Conservative" when it come to the environment


Barney

[merrylander]

Even NOAA figures our recent heat waves and drought are due to climate change.

[piece-itpete]

Even the modest attempt to simply slow down the increase of greenhouse gasses via Kyoto was a dismal failure. So how are we going to do this?

Originally Posted by Combwork

..., and we have to deal with continuing global climate change without fighting each other.
....

Aye, there's the rub.

Pete

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by bhunter

Calculate that mass and divide it by the mass of the atmosphere. You'll find it only amounts to ~0.009% even with assuming oil was used at the current rate for the last 100 years and that all of its mass reached and stayed in the atmosphere.

Originally Posted by Oerets

Considering that Ozone averages about 0.000004% of the atmosphere and we all know the effects it has over our lives. Then about 0.03 percent of the Earth's atmosphere consists of carbon dioxide which is increasing with the use of fossil fuels as we deforest the oxygen producing plants.

I'd say you just got pwned, BH.

John