I am a union man, born and bred and I'll die a union man.

[bhunter]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Private sector unions have to bargain with employers with the knowledge that they cannot make demands that will render the employer unprofitable. The employers obviously have to consider this as well. There is a natural (and desirable) tension between company profitability and employee pay/benefits.

With public sector unions, they're negotiating without this tension to balance profitability with employee compensation. Sitting on the other side of the table are politicians (and their surrogates) who are more than willing to buy votes. In many cases, they buy these votes with generous future benefits that are not paid out on their watch. They balance their budgets (and brag about it) while passing the costs for these concessions to future administrations.

Here's a good article on the subject from Fareed Zakaria, a very intelligent guy and hardly a conservative.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...117244,00.html

Excellent Fiin. That saved some typing.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by noonereal

what is to stop a corporation like Halliburton from buying local elections and then signing contracts with these cities to provide fire and police, teachers, and school employees?
Then out sourcing workers?

Frankly I would be surprised if serious consideration to such a plan had not been discussed by many multinationals already.

Pretty difficult to outsource a firemans job. Flying them in from India to put out a fire in Texas just won't work at all.

However, when it comes to the push to privatize everything and the possibility that this could lead to, or be motivated by kickback schemes is very possible, if not likely. I believe you are definitely on to something there, Ed.

Dave

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Pretty difficult to outsource a firemans job. Flying them in from India to put out a fire in Texas just won't work at all.

However, when it comes to the push to privatize everything and the possibility that this could lead to, or be motivated by kickback schemes is very possible, if not likely. I believe you are definitely on to something there, Ed.

Dave

I think this threat exists, but there is ample data to show that it is more expensive than a well-managed public sector workforce. The trick is to manage the public sector workforce well enough to reduce the appeal of privatization.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I think this threat exists, but there is ample data to show that it is more expensive than a well-managed public sector workforce. The trick is to manage the public sector workforce well enough to reduce the appeal of privatization.

The funny part is that my interactions with the public sector here have been quite amicable, it was the private sector that tried to screw me over.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by merrylander

The funny part is that my interactions with the public sector here have been quite amicable, it was the private sector that tried to screw me over.

Yep. Even though the Post Office and DMV are the favorite whipping boys of the Right, I've found the folks working there (around here at least) to be compassionate, competent hard workers. The checkout people at Walmart and Costco? Not so much.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Yep. Even though the Post Office and DMV are the favorite whipping boys of the Right, I've found the folks working there (around here at least) to be compassionate, competent hard workers. The checkout people at Walmart and Costco? Not so much.

You got that right.

The contractor I hired to build my listening room and re-roof the house was an absolute nightmare. I should have sued the SOB. $22,000 later and I had to go behind this POS and fix EVERYTHING. From the 4" wide gap between the slabs to the loose outlets that weren't even attached to the studs, to the sloppy drywall work. Not to mention the fact that he took nearly seven months to finish.

Yeah, consumer protection isn't necessary, our businessmen are all angels....

Dave

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Yeah, consumer protection isn't necessary, our businessmen are all angels....

Dave

Be fair, Dave! Since you haven't posted this contractor's name, address and telephone number, how do you expect the marketplace to work? Once you and a few dozen others relate your experiences with this clown his business will simply evaporate. That's how it works, as any Libertarian or Randian Objectivist knows full well!

Same with..... oh, I dunno, pharmaceuticals. Once enough people die from taking a bad product, everyone will stop buying it and the manufacturer will take it off the market. Don't you know anything?

John

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Be fair, Dave! Since you haven't posted this contractor's name, address and telephone number, how do you expect the marketplace to work? Once you and a few dozen others relate your experiences with this clown his business will simply evaporate. That's how it works, as any Libertarian or Randian Objectivist knows full well!

Same with..... oh, I dunno, pharmaceuticals. Once enough people die from taking a bad product, everyone will stop buying it and the manufacturer will take it off the market. Don't you know anything?

John

Because if I do post those things, then he sues me for defamation. Which is something I assume a "Free Market" Libertarian/Randian would fully support, to combat my "anti-business" bent.

Excellent post, BTW, John. It exposes the utter insanity of the times in a direct, easy to comprehend way.

Dave

[icenine]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Yep. Even though the Post Office and DMV are the favorite whipping boys of the Right, I've found the folks working there (around here at least) to be compassionate, competent hard workers. The checkout people at Walmart and Costco? Not so much.

That is because us types ( you and me Finnbow and other guvment people) are generally well taken care of...

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by Rex E.

I'll bet these kinda things go on in your town also:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012...lls-57000-hou/

Sickening abuse at tax payer expense.

"A spokesman for the fire fighters’ union also could not be immediately reached for comment"

Not disputing the story but a county commissioner's unsubstantiated accussations don't make something so and a responsible news reporter would at the least allow a little time for a rebuttle. If someone could prove the allegations heads would roll, I would think. Sounds to me the fire dept. was responding to the budget crunches by cutting back. As to allegations of them taking leave as a favor to other firemen wanting overtime pay? I didn't see where that was proved. If it could be I would think Cook County's DA would be bring charges. It mostly had a flavor of spun political BS from the one article.

I looked at the Carolina article also and I find it educational to poke around a news sources website to try to see the general tone of it. The sidebar on the right hand side of the page showing the topics du jour in their blogspots kind of paints a somewhat biased flavor in my opinion.

My objecton is very little fact checking goes into most stories these days. From where I stand, left of center, it happens more from conservative rags than leftie rags. Sadly it appears that opinion based news veracity goes unquestioned.

So, I'm still looking for hard facts as opposed to some columnist's opinions.