PPACA and Scotus

[wgrr]

Originally Posted by finnbow

If the mandate is killed, I'd just as soon that they kill the whole thing. The GOP will be on the hot seat to replace the overwhelmingly popular provisions regarding preexisting conditions and keeping kids on plans until 26. Indeed, the mandate is the operative core of the PPACA and without it, the whole thing collapses under its own weight.

Republicans are getting a little worried that if the ACA mandate is overturned then they will get blamed for all the good things that are all ready in affect like the ones you mentioned. Some others are caps on the amount of money insurance companies can skim off for operating expenses. Some companies were skimming off up to 45% before the ACA. It fixes the doughnut hole, no more life time caps, no cost to patient preventative care, more cancer treatment options. It has a very good provision that hunts down, arrests, and put people on trial who commit Medicare and Medicaid fraud. It has already
proved to be very effective at catching and convicting the people perpetuating the fraud.

If this all goes away this month make no mistake about it. People will blame the Republicans. The repeal and replace mantra Republicans espouse is going to come back to bite them on the butt. They don't have a plan. The plan that was passed was their plan.

It looks like the mandate is going to be declared unconstitutional. That Koched up Scalia has suddenly decided the commerce clause has way to much power. Just in time to vote down the ACA mandate.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012...edent-reversal

[merrylander]

So when do we pass the amendment that makes the Prez the C in C of the Air Force since the Constitution only mentions the Army and Navy.

[merrylander]

Well if "Wisdom came late" to Justice Scalia it sure is not very obvious.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by wgrr

Republicans are getting a little worried that if the ACA mandate is overturned then they will get blamed for all the good things that are all ready in affect like the ones you mentioned. Some others are caps on the amount of money insurance companies can skim off for operating expenses. Some companies were skimming off up to 45% before the ACA. It fixes the doughnut hole, no more life time caps, no cost to patient preventative care, more cancer treatment options. It has a very good provision that hunts down, arrests, and put people on trial who commit Medicare and Medicaid fraud. It has already
proved to be very effective at catching and convicting the people perpetuating the fraud.

If this all goes away this month make no mistake about it. People will blame the Republicans. The repeal and replace mantra Republicans espouse is going to come back to bite them on the butt. They don't have a plan. The plan that was passed was their plan.

It looks like the mandate is going to be declared unconstitutional. That Koched up Scalia has suddenly decided the commerce clause has way to much power. Just in time to vote down the ACA mandate.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012...edent-reversal

This could prove very interesting. While I like all the provisions noted above (as well as the mandate), I'm still uncomfortable with a 2,500 page bill of this nature. Hell, even shorter, more coherent bills almost always have unintended consequences, many of them negative.

If this goes down and the GOP wins the upcoming elections, it will be very interesting to watch the "government is the enemy" party trying to herd cats (particularly Tea Party types) into doing what the public expects and demands.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

This isn't exactly a minor issue! If it takes time, it takes time. Otherwise the Constitution is completely useless, toilet paper.

Dave we're having a nice conversation Did you build the Crack yourself?

Pete

It is completely useless toilet paper anyways, so long as the states can ignore my constitutional rights and make up their own. Whoever set it up that way was an idiot. No wonder we have nothing but argument and turmoil. There, still enjoying your conversation?

And, yes, of course I built it myself. And, as time goes by, I'll be modding it myself. I build my own speakers too.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by wgrr

Republicans are getting a little worried that if the ACA mandate is overturned then they will get blamed for all the good things that are all ready in affect like the ones you mentioned. Some others are caps on the amount of money insurance companies can skim off for operating expenses. Some companies were skimming off up to 45% before the ACA. It fixes the doughnut hole, no more life time caps, no cost to patient preventative care, more cancer treatment options. It has a very good provision that hunts down, arrests, and put people on trial who commit Medicare and Medicaid fraud. It has already
proved to be very effective at catching and convicting the people perpetuating the fraud.

If this all goes away this month make no mistake about it. People will blame the Republicans. The repeal and replace mantra Republicans espouse is going to come back to bite them on the butt. They don't have a plan. The plan that was passed was their plan.

It looks like the mandate is going to be declared unconstitutional. That Koched up Scalia has suddenly decided the commerce clause has way to much power. Just in time to vote down the ACA mandate.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012...edent-reversal

I hate to disagree with you, because I usually like your posts.

However, most people will THANK the Republicans, even though they have a very poor understanding of what they've been "saved" from. The guys here are much more astute, to be fair. But, when your out and about, just ask a few "Average Joes" what they think of it. I'll save you a lot of time-----They're ignorant. All they know is that some asshat rightwing pundit told them it's "So(c)ialism".

Even my boss, whom I like, respect and regard as decent, hardworking guy, who put his son (23 yrs. old) on his healthplan the instant he could...Is completely opposed to ACA. I asked him if he knew the "under 26" part came from ACA.....He didn't. Management told them it was ".....something new in the insurance plan." When I told him about all of the other things you described above, I got, "Yeah, well fuck that Obamacare shit anyways.".

This is the reality of our times, my good man. The GOP could simply take PPACA as it is, rebadge it as "The True Patriot Great American Eagle Health Plan" (Or some hokey, pseudo-patriotic crap like that.) and walk away smelling like a rose. Their starry-eyed acolytes thanking divine providence for sending Mitt to save them from the Totalitarian So(c)ialist......

And, I'm thinking that that, to some degree, is exactly what they plan to do.

Dave

[wgrr]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Right.

As Rob has mentioned; The federal government can force hospitals, nationwide, to provide services to people who have no intention of paying. No one questions the "constitutionality" of that......But, they can't make people go out and get their own insurance?

The forced emergency room care will have to go away. It is a mandate. If the SC strikes down the ACA mandate they have declared that all mandates are unconstitutional. You can't pick and choose.

The mandate in the ACA would have solved the emergency room situation.

I am wondering if the court is going to frame it as a violation of ones civil rights. That could open up a big old bag of worms.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

I hate to disagree with you, because I usually like your posts.

However, most people will THANK the Republicans, even though they have a very poor understanding of what they've been "saved" from. The guys here are much more astute, to be fair. But, when your out and about, just ask a few "Average Joes" what they think of it. I'll save you a lot of time-----They're ignorant. All they know is that some asshat rightwing pundit told them it's "So(c)ialism".

Even my boss, whom I like, respect and regard as decent, hardworking guy, who put his son (23 yrs. old) on his healthplan the instant he could...Is completely opposed to ACA. I asked him if he knew the "under 26" part came from ACA.....He didn't. Management told them it was ".....something new in the insurance plan." When I told him about all of the other things you described above, I got, "Yeah, well fuck that Obamacare shit anyways.".

This is the reality of our times, my good man. The GOP could simply take PPACA as it is, rebadge it as "The True Patriot Great American Eagle Health Plan" (Or some hokey, pseudo-patriotic crap like that.) and walk away smelling like a rose. Thier starry-eyed acolytes thanking devine providence for sending Mitt to save them from the Totalitarian So(c)ialist......

And, I'm thinking that that, to some degree, is exactly what they plan to do.

Dave

Good post, though I doubt that the GOP will be successful putting together any comprehensive package, even if they're allowed to plagiarize (their own plan, ironically enough). They may pass a tidbit or two, but that may be all they can get through.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by finnbow

This could prove very interesting. While I like all the provisions noted above (as well as the mandate), I'm still uncomfortable with a 2,500 page bill of this nature. Hell, even shorter, more coherent bills almost always have unintended consequences, many of them negative.

If this goes down and the GOP wins the upcoming elections, it will be very interesting to watch the "government is the enemy" party trying to herd cats (particularly Tea Party types) into doing what the public expects and demands.

Yep.

The government is the enemy......until you are the government, of course.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by wgrr

The forced emergency room care will have to go away. It is a mandate. If the SC strikes down the ACA mandate they have declared that all mandates are unconstitutional. You can't pick and choose.

The mandate in the ACA would have solved the emergency room situation.

I am wondering if the court is going to frame it as a violation of ones civil rights. That could open up a big old bag of worms.

And that's the point I was trying to make.

Thanks.