Not a good day for economic news...

[BlueStreak]

[QUOTE=Dondilion;105285]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

I do not believe capitalists in general view O as the bad man. I think they view him as a paper tiger. How many times has he bowed in their direction?

Gentlemen the economics to support large scale hiring is just not there.

If he has bowed in their direction so much, then what's the problem?
If he's compliant and giving them what they want, then where is the brisk recovery? Where are the gobs of high paying jobs?

Or, are they waiting for Santa Mitt to come and fill their stalkings with all sortsa goodies?

Funny, how we complain about politicians taking stuff from and granting favors to corporate lobbyists and their bosses........Then we turn around and hire one of them to run the government.

Last I checked, putting a fox in the coop at night still isn't the best way to protect your chickens.

[BlueStreak]

[QUOTE=bobabode;105290]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

And, there won't be either. Until we start putting money back in the pockets of consumers. And, who are "the consumers", Mike? Being unemployed is no help, being under-employed (compensated) is not much better.QUOTE]

Robert Reich I believe his name is hit this sentiment right on the money. The very first action to increase spending was to make the first $20k of income tax free - for everyone. It sounded simplistic but imagine all the proles with an extra bit of cash to spend. Lessee now, seat of the pants mind you but say 200 million taxpayers with $500 in their dirty little palms equals what? a trillion dollars available to the economy.Somebody check my math..?

The argument that the workforce is too soft and fat belies how motivated the poor schmoe who can't even get an interview for a job and who has to rely on food stamps which is a downright demeaning existence, from all accounts.

Reich was on the money IMO. The job creators are the low and middle class because without a customer base you ain't got shit to manufacture and no one to sell to.
The outlandish fairytale world of economics that the GOP ascribes to would have you believe that the opposite is true. Give it a good hard look and it's really obvious - no customers=no manufacturing= no profit, gawd damn it's that phucking simple.

All the asinine smoked red herrings aside you really need to see that all of this devisive bullshit is simply a huge effort to keep the real power in this country from realizing that one citizen - one vote can change everything.

Now, Bob. When are you going to learn that it makes far more sense to steer that trillion towards those who will take it and build factories in Upper Lutonia. Then try to sell the poorly made Upper Lutonian made whatchyamacallits to unemployed Americans at Walmart.

If they don't decide to just stash it in some tax free safehaven, that is.

Dave

[bobabode]

[QUOTE=BlueStreak;105299]

Originally Posted by bobabode

Now, Bob. When are you going to learn that it makes far more sense to steer that trillion towards those who will take it and build factories in Upper Lutonia. Then try to sell the poorly made Upper Lutonian made whatchyamacallits to unemployed Americans at Walmart.

If they don't decide to just stash it in some tax free safehaven, that is.

Dave

My tax free safe haven appears to be the one gallon mayonaise jar under my bed full of pennys and nickels. Sorry folks on the board but when I read stuff like whells last post about Clinton and Obama I kind of lose it for a bit. It is clear that his sole mission isn't to hash anything out. He simply gets an adolescent thrill out of poking a hornets nest.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

The difference was that Obama was running at a time in which GOP malfeasance had totally trashed the economy and McCain promised, seemingly, to continue policies that would make it worse. You do recall, I presume, that he stated emphatically that "the fundamentals of our economy are sound" at the very time that Lehman Bros. went belly up, precipitating the inevitable result of the GOP's policies.

As for Clinton, he did indeed come in and greatly improve the economy/deficit, IIRC.

How the GOP is able to sell the snake oil that they're better for the economy puzzles me. Then again, they've also successfully sold the notion that they are the party of national security/foreign policy. Go figure.

So, it's fine when Obama and Clinton do it. Bad when a Republican candidate does it. OK. Got it.

Your guy in the White House has run the debt up to stratospheric levels, but that "snake oil" is just fine, I guess. We've spent almost a trillion dollars on a stimulus and a host of other programs, yet we still have a staggering economy and unemployment over 8%. In the midst of a crap economy, we spent about a year passing a health care reform plan that nearly everyone believes is a pig with lipstick. And starting next year, still in the midst of hopefully a recovering economy, the tax increases meant to fund that pig will kick in - kicking a recovering economy right in the ass.

But oh no, it's absolutely out of bounds for anyone to question the Prez's good intentions but lousy results.

Right. Got it.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

So, it's fine when Obama and Clinton do it. Bad when a Republican candidate does it. OK. Got it.

Your guy in the White House has run the debt up to stratospheric levels, but that "snake oil" is just fine, I guess. We've spent almost a trillion dollars on a stimulus and a host of other programs, yet we still have a staggering economy and unemployment over 8%. In the midst of a crap economy, we spent about a year passing a health care reform plan that nearly everyone believes is a pig with lipstick. And starting next year, still in the midst of hopefully a recovering economy, the tax increases meant to fund that pig will kick in - kicking a recovering economy right in the ass.

But oh no, it's absolutely out of bounds for anyone to question the Prez's good intentions but lousy results.

Right. Got it.

Actually, I won't argue the contents of your middle paragraph. I was only pointing out that it was GOP policies that got us there and that the GOP seems to want to take us back to same policies. Moreover, I believe things would have been worse had McCain/Palin been elected.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by whell

So, it's fine when Obama and Clinton do it. Bad when a Republican candidate does it. OK. Got it.

Your guy in the White House has run the debt up to stratospheric levels, but that "snake oil" is just fine, I guess. We've spent almost a trillion dollars on a stimulus and a host of other programs, yet we still have a staggering economy and unemployment over 8%. In the midst of a crap economy, we spent about a year passing a health care reform plan that nearly everyone believes is a pig with lipstick. And starting next year, still in the midst of hopefully a recovering economy, the tax increases meant to fund that pig will kick in - kicking a recovering economy right in the ass.

But oh no, it's absolutely out of bounds for anyone to question the Prez's good intentions but lousy results.

Right. Got it.

Sorry for being harsh but you got to me with that Clinton remark, Whell. They aren't the same thing at all and i suspect you know that.
If Mitt would run his plan up the flagpole instead of keeping it under his hat we might be able to compare them. So sar all I'm seeing is a bunch of backbiting and fingerpointing at the President all the while wishing nobody looks what old Mitts is hiding up his skirts.
The GOPers are way big on tearing everybody down that does't agree with them and extremely thin on specifics on what to do to get us all out of the mess. I don't trust that possum faced sumbitch anyway, just look at him.
I've said it before would you buy a used car from that slick haired silver spoon up his ass weasel?

We've got a whole shitload of citizens having to move in with their kids and having to survive on food stamps. Un-employment compensation is over for most people and it's starting to look like the golden years means livin' out in the weeds. So forgive me if I appear harsh at times but as long as you come up with these erroneous statements that on the face of it are very light on compassion and any understanding of what is really happening I'll keep chiming in and calling bullshit.

[Dondilion]

I believe a lot have changed fundamentally to the disadvantage of workers in the US. The 8% unemployment might be a long term situation regardless of who is in power.

Another aspect:I was thinking in FDR time when he spent money on infrastructure a lot of that money went directly to many families. Recently I was watching roads being repaired in Brooklyn... Just a few guys.

[HatchetJack]

It's gonna have to get worse, much worse before we can ever prosper again.
I don't see why you all want to argue about which party is best. Neither can
pull us out of this shit hole and both are to blame for selling us out.
A dopehead left a blank check book to a draft dodger and we keep electing
people that have been to school for years to learn to steal?
Democrats can't tax if the republicans can not make money. And China has
made out like bandits while we stand there and do nothing to stop the
blood shed?

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Actually, I won't argue the contents of your middle paragraph. I was only pointing out that it was GOP policies that got us there and that the GOP seems to want to take us back to same policies. Moreover, I believe things would have been worse had McCain/Palin been elected.

Which policies are those? Tax cut and spend? Pretty much been Barry's agenda, too, far as I can tell. He left the tax increase for after his first term is done, and his timing with that couldn't be worse.

[whell]

Originally Posted by bobabode

Sorry for being harsh but you got to me with that Clinton remark, Whell. They aren't the same thing at all and i suspect you know that.
If Mitt would run his plan up the flagpole instead of keeping it under his hat we might be able to compare them. So sar all I'm seeing is a bunch of backbiting and fingerpointing at the President all the while wishing nobody looks what old Mitts is hiding up his skirts.
The GOPers are way big on tearing everybody down that does't agree with them and extremely thin on specifics on what to do to get us all out of the mess. I don't trust that possum faced sumbitch anyway, just look at him.
I've said it before would you buy a used car from that slick haired silver spoon up his ass weasel?

LOL. You and I will never agree on much of anything, except maybe music