Darren Wilson's Side of the Story

[Rajoo]

There was a lot of information too that led up to the Iraq war but lacked credibility which very few questioned. Very same principle applies here. Lot of information but consider the sources and the vested interests. Ferguson PD, the DA who was under pressure to recuse himself and the Grand Jury process; wrought with conflicts of interest.

So you accept the testimony verbatim of a surgeon in a medical malpractice case? Or bring in other surgeons and guess whose side they will take? Hint: they too carry malpractice insurance and really cannot practice without it.

Now after the Grand Jury verdict in NY on the Garner case, would any informed rational citizen trust the Grand Jury process? That's your problem with the law and order types, strong arguments with a weak case and you have to keep repeating yourself. Rings hollow.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by BeamOn

There was a lot of information too that led up to the Iraq war but lacked credibility which very few questioned. Very same principle applies here. Lot of information but consider the sources and the vested interests. Ferguson PD, the DA who was under pressure to recuse himself and the Grand Jury process; wrought with conflicts of interest.

So you accept the testimony verbatim of a surgeon in a medical malpractice case? Or bring in other surgeons and guess whose side they will take? Hint: they too carry malpractice insurance and really cannot practice without it.

Now after the Grand Jury verdict in NY on the Garner case, would any informed rational citizen trust the Grand Jury process? That's your problem with the law and order types, strong arguments with a weak case and you have to keep repeating yourself. Rings hollow.

What's your solution?

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by finnbow

What's your solution?

Redo Wilson grand jury, with special prosecutior.

Routine use of special prosecutors in cases of possible police wrongdoing.

that's just for starters.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Redo Wilson grand jury, with special prosecutior.

Routine use of special prosecutors in cases of possible police wrongdoing.

that's just for starters.

On its face, those sound like reasonable, desirable solutions. There are, however, a couple of problems with it. First "possible police wrongdoing" is very much in the eye of the beholder (in many communities, most police actions within those communities are inherently wrong) and it's the prosecutor's duty to make such judgments (who else can/should do it?). It's easy to say it should be done routinely, but the (substantial) cost of a special prosecutor comes from the prosecutor's (limited) budget.

The local DA is elected by the community to do the job within an allotted budget. One high-profile case will suck the budget dry to the detriment of all other legal actions (e.g., the (correct) recusal of the Virginia AG in the Gov. McDonnell case cost VA taxpayers ~$1 million.) Like it or not, a prosecutor has to balance the real need of a special prosecutor against its substantial cost.

It's easy to devise solutions to real world problems as long as one isn't compelled to impose real world constraints.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

It's easy to say it should be done routinely, but the (substantial) cost of a special prosecutor comes from the prosecutor's (limited) budget.

Why? Such a procedure would require new legislation and, as such, the funding for such investigations could come from any bin in the government's cash drawer. Also, the proceedings would be in lieu of the "traditional" grand jury investigation, not in tandem with it. The money spent by the Special Prosecutor would be spent instead of the money the DA would have spent.

One high-profile case will suck the budget dry to the detriment of all other legal actions (e.g., the (correct) recusal of the Virginia AG in the Gov. McDonnell case cost VA taxpayers ~$1 million.)

And how much would have the DA spent had he been given the case?

John

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Why? Such a procedure would require new legislation and, as such, the funding for such investigations could come from any bin in the government's cash drawer. Also, the proceedings would be in lieu of the "traditional" grand jury investigation, not in tandem with it. The money spent by the Special Prosecutor would be spent instead of the money the DA would have spent.

These lawyers and their staffs bill at many hundreds of dollars per hour. This is in addition to the salaries being earned by the career prosecutor and his staff. As noted above, the outside counsel for the defense of the Virginia governor (because his AG was implicated in the same mess) cost an additional $1million.

And yes it would require additional legislation and funding. How many states do you know looking for additional places to spend their scarce resources? And how many politicians do you know who will run (and win) on a platform to spend untold millions on routine special prosecutors?

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

And yes it would require additional legislation and funding. How many states do you know looking for additional places to spend their scarce resources? And how many politicians do you know who will run (and win) on a platform to spend untold millions on routine special prosecutors?

Again, it requires new legislation and, sadly, would probably require a permanent staff of lawyers employed for the purpose by the states. While this will certainly involve expenditure of public funds, it will also reduce the expenditures by prosecutor's offices by relieving them of the necessity of investigating cases of possible police abuse.

As for electability of a politician running on such an issue, the WaPo poll seems to indicate that said issue enjoys strong bipartisan support.

And the whole idea that we "can't afford" justice for people abused or even murdered by the police is one I find reprehensible.

John

[sheltiedave]

Originally Posted by finnbow

These lawyers and their staffs bill at many hundreds of dollars per hour. This is in addition to the salaries being earned by the career prosecutor and his staff. As noted above, the outside counsel for the defense of the Virginia governor (because his AG was implicated in the same mess) cost an additional $1million.

And yes it would require additional legislation and funding. How many states do you know looking for additional places to spend their scarce resources? And how many politicians do you know who will run (and win) on a platform to spend untold millions on routine special prosecutors?

So far the bill for the Police OT and the National Guard is slightly under $2.7 million dollars.

There were two law firms that offered to provide the special prosecutor and all the support staff for free for the entirety of the grand jury and the jury trial. McCulloch turned them down.

McCulloch ran and won his race as DA while spending close to 20% of his total budget on routine contract prosecutors.

Eh, what were your objections again to a SP in St. Louis?

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by finnbow

What's your solution?

A civil case against Wilson by the Brown family. That's the only recourse left I am afraid. This after disbanding the Ferguson PD for reasons of corruption (for profit LE being one).

And for the sake of entertainment, a smart lawyer should question McCullah regarding the Grand Jury process he employed so that people like you will quit quoting this Grand Jury verdict forever.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by BeamOn

A civil case against Wilson by the Brown family. That's the only recourse left I am afraid. This after disbanding the Ferguson PD for reasons of corruption (for profit LE being one).

There's little doubt about a forthcoming civil case. As for "for profit law enforcement," for the most part, lawmakers devise such schemes, not police departments. They can't get (re)elected by raising taxes, so they devise other ways (e.g., traffic cameras).

And for the sake of entertainment, a smart lawyer should question McCullah regarding the Grand Jury process he employed so that people like you will quit quoting this Grand Jury verdict forever.

Many have. Here's a snapshot:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_...-case_analysis