Israel has invaded Gaza...

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Had a few rocket rounds fired into what I guess you would call my neighborhood, when I was in Nam. I didn't like it, but I never really hated the Viet Cong for doing it.

I think even at that young age I understood that we were over on their turf fucking with them.

The same thing with 9/11.

I didn't like being attacked like that but I can see where our going over there and fucking with them had a lot to do with provoking it.

What I don't get is how you can be so blind to Israels provocation.

You're doing it again TJ. Your experience in country in Vietnam has nothing to do with what's been going on in Israel since the end of the war. But I guess you're convinced that Israeli Jews hate Palestinians. All the Jews of Israel want is to protect themselves and to be left the fuck alone. They've agreed to cease-fire accords. They've returned chunks of land with the promise that the rockets and mortars and backpacks full of gelignite would end. And it never ends.

But you and I both know, whether you have the cojones to admit it or not...that the day the last rocket or mortar round is fired into an Israeli neighborhood will be the last day of any hostilities between the parties therein. And I would even suggest that the quality of life in Gaza would begin to improve almost immediately if weren't for the fact that the people of Gaza have their miserable existence because of who they've chosen for their leaders. For years...Palestinian Israelis who have the courage to offer it will tell you, "...the hell of Israel is way better than the paradise of Arafat." What Israeli Palestinians fear more than anything is that things will get so bad that their Israeli residency will be jeopardized.

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

....

"...the hell of Israel is way better than the paradise of Arafat."
.....

Looks right from what I've seen.

Pete

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

But I guess you're convinced that Israeli Jews hate Palestinians.

If I wasn't before, the posts you have made in this thread would have convinced me.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

What Israeli Palestinians fear more than anything is that things will get so bad that their Israeli residency will be jeopardized.

They are Israeli citizens. Why would their residency be jeopardized under any conditions, except in individual cases after due process of law? Or does collective treatment just seem natural, for some reason, when we're talking about them?

It couldn't be because they are a despised, oppressed minority in Israel, could it? Or am I full of it because every Israeli jew is your belioved cousin, and an ANGEL who can do no worng, unless they do, but since it's them it's OK?

'Yes SUR, Massa, I sure do loves it bein' here in Israel!'

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

They are Israeli citizens. Why would their residency be jeopardized under any conditions, except in individual cases after due process of law? Or does collective treatment just seem natural, for some reason, when we're talking about them?

It couldn't be because they are a despised, oppressed minority in Israel, could it? Or am I full of it because every Israeli jew is your belioved cousin, and an ANGEL who can do no worng, unless they do, but since it's them it's OK?

'Yes SUR, Massa, I sure do loves it bein' here in Israel!'

They fear it just like the Jews fear being driven into the Mediterranean. Y'know, this isn't the first time I've noticed how pissy my fellow lefties get when it's one of your ideological cohort who won't buy into typical lefty anti-Israeli sentiment. It's fascinatin' actually that we get this Jews=nazis bullshit and Jews=southern slave master bullshit from our fellow progressives. And you go so much more relatively easy on the right-wingnut supporters of the State of Israel. Reckon WTF that's all about, eh?

And reckon what the deal is with lefty's when they go all apeshit over skinhead anti-Semitism, or redneck anti-Semitism, or just plain old American Christian anti-Semitism...but when it's Arab/Palestinian anti-Semitism...it's the Jews own fault. It's the poor oppressed Palestinians who apparently have justification for their anti-Semitism.

I also find it most interesting how Israel's neighbor states supply and fund Hamas and Hezbollah and other organizations with weapons, and money for weapons, and money for flight school in Florida, when they could just as easily supply the Palestinian leadership with aid that would allow for some economic growth and improvement of quality of life issues for Palestinians. Economic aid isn't going to provide much progress toward the actual goal I suppose, which is not helping out their fellow Muslims, but getting rid of Jews.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

They fear it just like the Jews fear being driven into the Mediterranean. Y'know, this isn't the first time I've noticed how pissy my fellow lefties get when it's one of your ideological cohort who won't buy into typical lefty anti-Israeli sentiment. It's fascinatin' actually that we get this Jews=nazis bullshit and Jews=southern slave master bullshit from our fellow progressives. And you go so much more relatively easy on the right-wingnut supporters of the State of Israel. Reckon WTF that's all about, eh?

And reckon what the deal is with lefty's when they go all apeshit over skinhead anti-Semitism, or redneck anti-Semitism, or just plain old American Christian anti-Semitism...but when it's Arab/Palestinian anti-Semitism...it's the Jews own fault. It's the poor oppressed Palestinians who apparently have justification for their anti-Semitism.

I also find it most interesting how Israel's neighbor states supply and fund Hamas and Hezbollah and other organizations with weapons, and money for weapons, and money for flight school in Florida, when they could just as easily supply the Palestinian leadership with aid that would allow for some economic growth and improvement of quality of life issues for Palestinians. Economic aid isn't going to provide much progress toward the actual goal I suppose, which is not helping out their fellow Muslims, but getting rid of Jews.

Where do you get the notion that anyone here condones antisemitism? I have a problem with the notion that suffering from antisemitism justifies any and all oppression against another minority.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

Where do you get the notion that anyone here condones antisemitism? I have a problem with the notion that suffering from antisemitism justifies any and all oppression against another minority.

Regards,

D-Ray

It's always been about anti-Semitism. Right from the beginning. I have a problem with the notion of excusing the behavior or terrorists as anything else. It doesn't matter if it's in Europe, the Middle East, or right here in the good 'ol USofA. You can frame your "justification" any way you like. It will all end when the Islamic militants and radicals decide to let it end. But they won't ever let it end, because for them the rest of the world is full of godless infidels...and the Jews just lucked out as being the worst infidels of all, and accepted the western world's offer of part of the British Mandate as a "safe place" for them to exist.

And who's land it is is a matter of considerable debate anyway. As provided by distant history and more recent history in the form of the Jordanian annexation of the West Bank, and the Egyptian annexation of Gaza, which happened and nobody liked but the British. And which didn't end until the Israelis kicked their asses back onto their own territories. But somehow the Jordanian occupation and the Egyptian occupation never really created the violent reaction that boiled up when Jews decided it was their turn. Go figure.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

It's always been about anti-Semitism. Right from the beginning.

What is 'it?"

And how do you know 'it' has always been about anti-Semitism?

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

I have a problem with the notion of excusing the behavior or terrorists as anything else.

What does 'excuse' mean. Why is whether someone is 'excused' or 'damned,' in your perception, by third parties, such a big freaking deal, that you have a problem with it?

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

It will all end when the Islamic militants and radicals decide to let it end. But they won't ever let it end, because for them the rest of the world is full of godless infidels.

In other words, the Palestinians are not like other people. They are crazy, dangerous, it's what they are, they cannot change.

Fair restatement? If not, why not?

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

And you go so much more relatively easy on the right-wingnut supporters of the State of Israel.

Are you shitin me?

I go easy on right wingers?



Man you really are divorced from reality on this issue IKE.

Oh Well, I suppose I should cut the Israelis some slack.

I feel about the same towards Republicans as they feel towards the Palestinians.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

They fear it just like the Jews fear being driven into the Mediterranean. Y'know, this isn't the first time I've noticed how pissy my fellow lefties get when it's one of your ideological cohort who won't buy into typical lefty anti-Israeli sentiment. It's fascinatin' actually that we get this Jews=nazis bullshit and Jews=southern slave master bullshit from our fellow progressives. And you go so much more relatively easy on the right-wingnut supporters of the State of Israel. Reckon WTF that's all about, eh?

If a right wing fellow gets in my face about how the Jews are entitled to do anything they want to anybody in or around Israel, I won't go easy on them.

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

And reckon what the deal is with lefty's when they go all apeshit over skinhead anti-Semitism, or redneck anti-Semitism, or just plain old American Christian anti-Semitism...but when it's Arab/Palestinian anti-Semitism...it's the Jews own fault. It's the poor oppressed Palestinians who apparently have justification for their anti-Semitism.

I deplore Palestinian anti-Semitism, and all nasty things they do, not least because they 'justify' Israeli hatred and nastiness. Which you do not deplore, but deny and/or justify.

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

I also find it most interesting how Israel's neighbor states supply and fund Hamas and Hezbollah and other organizations with weapons, and money for weapons, and money for flight school in Florida, when they could just as easily supply the Palestinian leadership with aid that would allow for some economic growth and improvement of quality of life issues for Palestinians. Economic aid isn't going to provide much progress toward the actual goal I suppose, which is not helping out their fellow Muslims, but getting rid of Jews.

We have an anecdote in this thread about how happy the Israelis are for third parties to come to the aid of the Palestinians.