Zelensky meets with Biden...

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

Abetting the conditions that produce this by quiet acquiescence to them is reprehensable, and no solution.

"First they came for the so************************ts, and I did not speak out—because I was not a so************************t.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

—Martin Niemöller

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Oerets

Times change and so should our immigration policies. With I suspect the effects of climate change being behind a good portion of driving issues causing migrants fleeing towards the poles.

The decisions ahead need to be discussed and humanly implemented. New laws and actions. Just allowing without a better plan for the future not going to be well received.

There is absolutely nothing about the provisions of the Refugee Convention that need to be changed or should be changed. No refugee who is asking for asylum because they are subject to government maltreatment, or death by government, should be returned to their country to be tortured or killed. No immigrant should be turned away because they do not speak English...reckon how many of our own ancestors from Poland, Germany, Sweden, Norway, Japan, Korea, or any other nation who did not speak English, would have been turned away if fluency in English was required in the past? Should my German speaking cousin the electrical engineer who's immigration I want to sponsor be denied. Should my best friend from Mexico who was sponsored by a church group with rudimentary English skills, and who is not a college psychology professor have been denied do to language?

I don't think so.

But you may have something there about climate change. I don't think I want a bunch of foreigners from Florida, Alabama and Texas invading Illinois because it's too hot back home and because of our fresh water supply.

[Oerets]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

There is absolutely nothing about the provisions of the Refugee Convention that need to be changed or should be changed. No refugee who is asking for asylum because they are subject to government maltreatment, or death by government, should be returned to their country tasylim o be tortured or killed. No immigrant should be turned away because they do not speak English...reckon how many of our own ancestors from Poland, Germany, Sweden, Norway, Japan, Korea, or any other nation who did not speak English, would have been turned away if fluency in English was required in the past? Should my German speaking cousin the electrical engineer who's immigration I want to sponsor be denied. Should my best friend from Mexico who was sponsored by a church group with rudimentary English skills, and who is not a college psychology professor have been denied do to language?

I don't think so.

But you may have something there about climate change. I don't think I want a bunch of foreigners from Florida, Alabama and Texas invading Illinois because it's too hot back home and because of our fresh water supply.

The vast majority of the influx at the boarder we are facing is people wanting a better life. By us taking in the high levels if asylum were the majority then something needs to be done to the countries of origin. The problems associated with their countries will follow to this one.

One of the issues that lands squarely at our countries doorstep. Is Drugs! Yes this countries love of Drugs from some of the countries involved.

As sad as their suffering is sometimes it is up to the citizens to fix their problems. Giving a easy solution of walking away will not fix their country.

Today the issue of the appearance of unchecked masses hitting the country. Will be a big issue when the influx is seen in places not accustom to what boarder areas historically have.

The faucet needs to be turned off. The country is not prepared for the numbers of the last few years. The effects on services and quality of everyone's life is going to be effected.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Oerets

The vast majority of the influx at the boarder we are facing is people wanting a better life. By us taking in the high levels if asylum were the majority then something needs to be done to the countries of origin. The problems associated with their countries will follow to this one.

As sad as their suffering is sometimes it is up to the citizens to fix their problems. Giving a easy solution of walking away will not fix their country.

Today the issue of the appearance of unchecked masses hitting the country. Will be a big issue when the influx is seen in places not accustom to what boarder areas historically have.

The faucet needs to be turned off. The country is not prepared for the numbers of the last few years. The effects on services and quality of everyone's life is going to be effected.

We can't do the things that need to be done in this country. How TF are we supposed to get other sovereign nations to change anything they're doing. We go to the governments of Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras telling them what they should be doing and y'know what they rightly say to us?

Doctor...heal thyself. And they would be exactly right.

On the continuum of how oppressed groups are treated by their government, we are way better than most (but not way better than all). So what should our government do, threaten Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras with economic sanctions that make life for the oppressed communities in those countries even worse than it is now? Did we not learn our lesson from the Cuba blockade?

Originally Posted by Oerets

One of the issues that lands squarely at our countries doorstep. Is Drugs! Yes this countries love of Drugs from some of the countries involved.

The drugs that are doing the most damage to this culture, to this society, are the legal ones. Alcohol and cigarettes.

[Chicks]

Why Can’t We Stop Unauthorized Immigration? Because It Works.
Our broken immigration system is still the best option for many migrants — and U.S. employers.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/01/m...migration.html

Today migrants are routinely employed in almost every blue- and pink-collar industry in America. Recent Times investigations by Hannah Dreier found unaccompanied minors packing Cheerios, washing hotel sheets and sanitizing chicken-processing plants. The United States has laws banning these and other abusive labor practices, but many companies have found a workaround: staffing agencies. “They’re all designed to skirt litigations,” Kevin Herrera, the legal director of Raise the Floor Alliance, in Chicago, once explained to me. Many of these agencies specialize in hiring people who will suffer any number of degrading or dangerous conditions because they are desperate for work. Their offices are sometimes inside the company factories. But if one of their employees files a complaint, is injured on the job or is caught working illegally, the agency runs interference so that the company avoids legal responsibility.

American consumers benefit from these systems every time they find exceptionally inexpensive ways to get their lawns cut, their bathrooms cleaned, their houses built, their apples picked, their nails painted and their young and old cared for. The prices we pay for these services have been subsidized for generations by transnational migrants. In 2015, economists at Texas A&M concluded that if immigrant labor were eliminated from the dairy industry, the retail price of milk would nearly double. More recently, in Florida, construction projects stalled and their costs rose after the state passed new laws targeting undocumented residents. Economists say that recent migrants have also blunted the worst effects of post-pandemic inflation.

In the United States, versions of these economic dynamics have always been in play, but what has changed over the past 100 years is the way that immigration policy has created a permanent class of disenfranchised “illegal” workers.

Legal immigration today is close to impossible for most people. David J. Bier of the Cato Institute recently estimated that around 3 percent of the people who tried to move permanently to the United States were able to do so legally. “Legal immigration is less like waiting in line and more like winning the lottery: It happens, but it is so rare that it is irrational to expect it in any individual case,” he wrote in a comprehensive review of the current regulations. He concludes that “trying the legal immigration system as an alternative to immigrating illegally is like playing Powerball as an alternative to saving for retirement.”

In other words, illegal immigration is the natural consequence of the conflict between America’s thirst for foreign labor and its strict immigration laws. The world’s increasing connectedness and fluidity have just supercharged this dynamic.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I didn't say the border is not a problem. I said it has nothing whatsoever to do with the lack of MAGA support for Ukraine (which was your unfounded and ridiculous assertion).

There you go talking out your ass again.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kevin-m...indsey-graham/

Washington — House Speaker Kevin McCarthy said lawmakers wanting more funding for Ukraine will have to give in on border security funding.

"The priority for me is America and our borders," the California Republican told "Face the Nation" on Sunday. "Now, I support being able to make sure Ukraine has the weapons that they need, but I firmly support the border first. So we've got to find a way that we can do this together."

[whell]

Originally Posted by Chicks

Why Can’t We Stop Unauthorized Immigration? Because It Works.
Our broken immigration system is still the best option for many migrants — and U.S. employers.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/01/m...migration.html

So legislatively expand LEGAL immigration. But justifying it by saying "it works" is horseshit. 890 people died trying to cross the southern border illegally last year, and over 680 so far this year so far. That doesn't count those who die or are killed making the trip north through Mexico.

Throw in the folks on the terrorist watch list who get in, the drugs that get in, and the human trafficking going on. This is what you and the NY Times call a system that's working?

That's sick, and a new low even for you.

[bobabode]

not worth the keystrokes

[Chicks]

Originally Posted by whell

So legislatively expand LEGAL immigration. But justifying it by saying "it works" is horseshit. 890 people died trying to cross the southern border illegally last year, and over 680 so far this year so far. That doesn't count those who die or are killed making the trip north through Mexico.

Throw in the folks on the terrorist watch list who get in, the drugs that get in, and the human trafficking going on. This is what you and the NY Times call a system that's working?

That's sick, and a new low even for you.

Wow. You must read at a third grade level. Sad! You are a pathetic little Trumpkin.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by Chicks

Wow. You must read at a third grade level. Sad! You are a pathetic little Trumpkin.

Now, now... You leave third graders out of this, mister.