It's Official, Russians Corrupted The Election

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

My job sucked, but I made a whole lot of money doing it.

If I had put what I paid in to SS in to a simple index fund when I started in 1972 I would have a hell of a lot more money coming in now than SS will ever pay me.

You made a choice that making a lot of money was more important than your quality of life. I could have made a whole lot more money if I had decided to represent management instead of working people. But I enjoy the value of job satisfaction, a clear conscience, and the pleasure of whupping up on management lawyers on a regular basis.

See, I spend a lot of my time making sure that people who want to work are able to keep working. The interests I represent are not deadbeats, but skilled workers who want to work for a fair wage and under fair working conditions. But those hard working people, who benefit from fair labor laws and fair contracts, don't fit your narrative of the left.

[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

You made a choice that making a lot of money was more important than your quality of life. I could have made a whole lot more money if I had decided to represent management instead of working people. But I enjoy the value of job satisfaction, a clear conscience, and the pleasure of whupping up on management lawyers on a regular basis.

See, I spend a lot of my time making sure that people who want to work are able to keep working. The interests I represent are not deadbeats, but skilled workers who want to work for a fair wage and under fair working conditions. But those hard working people, who benefit from fair labor laws and fair contracts, don't fit your narrative of the left.

What's a fair contract ? Exactly what do you think somebody doing a repetitive task with nothing invested and no skin in the game is supposed to make? What do you think that somebody who didn't even have the gumption to finish school is suppose to make? What do you think somebody who tells the boss "that is not my job" is supposed to make? What do you think somebody who is offered an opportunity but refuses it because it is harder is supposed to make ? Do you think that the purpose of a business is to give people jobs ? Do you wonder why countries whose people are happy to study and do whatever it takes are taking our jobs ?

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

What's a fair contract ? Exactly what do you think somebody doing a repetitive task with nothing invested and no skin in the game is supposed to make? What do you think that somebody who didn't even have the gumption to finish school is suppose to make? What do you think somebody who tells the boss "that is not my job" is supposed to make? What do you think somebody who is offered an opportunity but refuses it because it is harder is supposed to make ? Do you think that the purpose of a business is to give people jobs ? Do you wonder why countries whose people are happy to study and do whatever it takes are taking our jobs ?

You make plenty of false assumptions. A lot of these workers spend several years in an apprentice program gaining the skills for their trade. Others invest years and years in a job developing a skill set that benefits their employer. A fair contract recognizes the investment of time and effort that workers make toward the profitability of the company. It reflects the value that the workers add to the product. A fair contract certainly allows people to work at a wage level that provides decent housing, nutrition and health care - and education for their kids.

The people I come in contact with are interested in working hard and producing a good product (or building), or in keeping people and property safe, protecting the health of their patients, or providing other services that people expect to find in the marketplace.

You appear to have a warped view of the people who go to work daily to try their best to earn a living. Indeed, you must really have a troubled soul to carry such hatred toward other people who are not as "good" as you. Was all that money really worth it?

[Oerets]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

You make plenty of false assumptions. A lot of these workers spend several years in an apprentice program gaining the skills for their trade. Others invest years and years in a job developing a skill set that benefits their employer. A fair contract recognizes the investment of time and effort that workers make toward the profitability of the company. It reflects the value that the workers add to the product. A fair contract certainly allows people to work at a wage level that provides decent housing, nutrition and health care - and education for their kids.

The people I come in contact with are interested in working hard and producing a good product (or building), or in keeping people and property safe, protecting the health of their patients, or providing other services that people expect to find in the marketplace.

You appear to have a warped view of the people who go to work daily to try their best to earn a living. Indeed, you must really have a troubled soul to carry such hatred toward other people who are not as "good" as you. Was all that money really worth it?

Haven't you found out yet contracts are only a bad thing when it applies to the general worker bees. Those with little power and voice.
Not when applied to captains of industry, electricians plumbers mechanics and the likes, they all see the need for protections in writing.


Barney

[whell]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

You make plenty of false assumptions. A lot of these workers spend several years in an apprentice program gaining the skills for their trade. Others invest years and years in a job developing a skill set that benefits their employer. A fair contract recognizes the investment of time and effort that workers make toward the profitability of the company. It reflects the value that the workers add to the product. A fair contract certainly allows people to work at a wage level that provides decent housing, nutrition and health care - and education for their kids.

The people I come in contact with are interested in working hard and producing a good product (or building), or in keeping people and property safe, protecting the health of their patients, or providing other services that people expect to find in the marketplace.

You appear to have a warped view of the people who go to work daily to try their best to earn a living. Indeed, you must really have a troubled soul to carry such hatred toward other people who are not as "good" as you. Was all that money really worth it?

Condescension from someone who purports to have cornered the market on morality.

It is a legitimate question to ask the question: what is the market value of a particular job, particularly unskilled labor. Not all union jobs require apprenticeship programs, and for those that do the unions try to make damn sure that they achieve cartel status for the utilization of that labor.

Take this contract for instance:

http://hotelworkers.org/images/uploa..._Agreement.pdf

This year, a dishwasher at a union NY area hotel will make $30.8714 per hour. A pot washer will make $31.1043. Housekeepers will be in the $32/ hour range. $31/hour doing hotel laundry.

Now, I have no malice, envy or ill - will against folks who earn those wages doing those jobs. More power to them. Also, the NY hotel business is pretty flush being one of the world's major destination, so those wages - at major hotels - are likely sustainable in the near term. Maybe in Chicago and L.A as well. But just about anywhere else? Not so much. Not even half if that in cities like Detroit, Cincinnati, Indianapolis or I suspect Atlanta. Or even Washington DC.

It would be great if that was possible, but the reality is that certain job functions have limited value. Even a union contract recognizes this. Using your standard, does a housekeeper have less "investment of time and effort ... toward the profitability of the company" than a cook? No, but a union contact for a hotel often pays the cook more. Which might seem counter-intuitive: I'd rather have a bland meal at a hotel versus an "almost clean" hotel room. But cooks have typically have more training, require more on the job experience to become proficient than a housekeeper does. This doesn't diminish the value of the work that the housekeeper does at the hotel, it simply prices that labor in more in line with the knowledge, skills and abilities.

This also explains why the concept of a "living wage" is flawed. Nice idea, but flawed.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by whell

Condescension from someone who purports to have cornered the market on morality.

You appear to have completely ignored the tone of the poster to whom the post was directed. The false assumptions made in his posts and the insults directed at others certainly suggest malice.

[whell]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

You appear to have completely ignored the tone of the poster to whom the post was directed. The false assumptions made in his posts and the insults directed at others certainly suggest malice.

I was focused the ...errrr..."substance" of your post and the sweeping generalizations you used to try to make your case. And you had your own "tone" counselor....

[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

You appear to have completely ignored the tone of the poster to whom the post was directed. The false assumptions made in his posts and the insults directed at others certainly suggest malice.

How exactly do you determine tone on a forum. Other than Bob who started it in that direction way back I have no malice towards anybody on here.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

How exactly do you determine tone on a forum. Other than Bob who started it in that direction way back I have no malice towards anybody on here.

Since you asked:

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

That's right. If they did not take the money from the people who work their ass off doing something they don't like to support the deadbeat Obama voters we could do just fine without it.

But no, they are less fortunate. My ass. They are sorry as hell would be more accurate.

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

You guys seem to live in some fantasy world.
You seem to think that the people who sacrificed and put forth the effort are no different from you. Just fortunate. That's bullshit.
The reason you never amounted to anything is on you. Same with everybody else.
You went and got a job working a hammer for somebody else and that is as far as you took it.
Now you think you deserve some fair share for being a grunt.
Good luck in the contest.

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

What's a fair contract ? Exactly what do you think somebody doing a repetitive task with nothing invested and no skin in the game is supposed to make? What do you think that somebody who didn't even have the gumption to finish school is suppose to make? What do you think somebody who tells the boss "that is not my job" is supposed to make? What do you think somebody who is offered an opportunity but refuses it because it is harder is supposed to make ? Do you think that the purpose of a business is to give people jobs ? Do you wonder why countries whose people are happy to study and do whatever it takes are taking our jobs ?

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

Says the man who made his living off other people's taxes.

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

That's right. Couldn't have had anything to do with the lying bitch you nominated.

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

You have never done anything in your life that I couldn't do better. If I ever needed somebody like you to do some carpentry, sheet rock, plumbing, electrical, I would shoot myself. However, I can't lay brick worth a crap.

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

Probably a change from preying on old widow women.

[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

You make plenty of false assumptions. A lot of these workers spend several years in an apprentice program gaining the skills for their trade. Others invest years and years in a job developing a skill set that benefits their employer. A fair contract recognizes the investment of time and effort that workers make toward the profitability of the company. It reflects the value that the workers add to the product. A fair contract certainly allows people to work at a wage level that provides decent housing, nutrition and health care - and education for their kids.

The people I come in contact with are interested in working hard and producing a good product (or building), or in keeping people and property safe, protecting the health of their patients, or providing other services that people expect to find in the marketplace.

You appear to have a warped view of the people who go to work daily to try their best to earn a living. Indeed, you must really have a troubled soul to carry such hatred toward other people who are not as "good" as you. Was all that money really worth it?

I think the false assumption you have is that the people you describe are the norm in the work place. I have absolutely no problem with those you describe making a good living.
But, having employed at least 50 people and likely more over a period of thirty years I can tell you that finding employees that fit the liberal description of the American worker are next to impossible to find.