18 and Dead.

[Pio1980]

If a suspect is, say, running toward an area where he might attempt to hide amongst non-combatants or hostages might be taken, what is the LEOs obligation?

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[Zeke]

Originally Posted by nailer

Calling for back-up is not waiting for back-up. Discretion is the better part of valor. Seriously, kill the teen instead.

You call for backup on a jaywalker and suspected cigar booster? Everything was fine until the officer was attacked.

At that point? You're out of time.

Originally Posted by nailer

Why not answer Joe Friday's specific questions instead if going Rambo on the rhetorical one about good/bad policing.

There was a specific question amongst the din of ridiculous outrage?

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

If a suspect is, say, running toward an area where he might attempt to hide amongst non-combatants or hostages might be taken, what is the LEOs obligation?

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Protect the public.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Your jumping to conclusions since day one is what's wrong. Wrong enough to get you fired if you were involved in any real investigation.

That was then, this is now.

Show me one thing I said that was wrong today.

Right now I have four of you ganging up on me and trying to take me down.

You, Zeke, Ike, and Nailer.

And maybe there are more waiting in the wings.

Bring it.

I'll rip every one of you a new asshole with nothing but facts.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

The officer had his gun drawn.

If he is trained right he brings his weapon up and puts the front sight on the target and squeezes the trigger all in one motion. Ain't no way Usain Bolt gets more than one step before that bullet hims him.

1. Try it. (I'd love to see this.)
2. See if "one bullet" does the trick.
3. I'll take video for you.

Your know nothing poser machismo is beginning to annoy. Why? Because anyone who has received actual training acts in the knowledge that the reason you DON'T do what you suggest is barely it rarely works in real life to any measure of success.

The trained methods are the trained methods because they are the safest ones for the officer and the public (that doesn't assault officers).

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

That was then, this is now.

Show me one thing I said that was wrong today.

Right now I have four of you ganging up on me and trying to take me down.

You, Zeke, Ike, and Nailer.

And maybe there are more waiting in the wings.

Bring it.

I'll rip every one of you a new asshole with nothing but facts.

I'm not "ganging up on you." I'm laughing at you.

You're threatened, know nothing about how these situations are professionally handled, and are ineffectually flailing.

It's something to witness.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Zeke

1. A single bullet rarely does the trick.

The 9mm round sucks, I agree. And I suspect that's what this cop had.

The Military should have never dropped the old .45 ACP, but that's another story.

Originally Posted by Zeke

1. A single bullet rarely does the trick.
2. That's why you're trained to fire until threat neutralization.
3. Your bullet "getting to him" is not when the clock stops on danger.

I don't see where the danger clock ever started for this cop.

Maybe if the assault in the vehicle is true, but like I said, that is contradicted by the eyewitnesses accounts.

But allowing that it did, once an unarmed person retreats from you the danger is over.

[nailer]

Originally Posted by Zeke

You call for backup on a jaywalker and suspected cigar booster? Everything was fine until the officer was attacked.

At that point? You're out of time.



There was a specific question amongst the din of ridiculous outrage?

I stated the facts of this case as presented in this thread. There are two key unanswered knowable facts that are key to investigating this crime - # shoots fired and where the officer was when the shots were fired.

The officer didn't know about the cigar heist. Why do you keep using it to support your position?

It's better to jump out of the car and shoot a rousted jaywalker who hit you than to let him get away?

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

I don't see where the danger clock ever started for this cop.

Now, you're just being willfully ignorant.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Zeke

1. Try it. (I'd love to see this.)
2. See if "one bullet" does the trick.
3. I'll take video for you.

Your know nothing poser machismo is beginning to annoy. Why? Because anyone who has received actual training acts in the knowledge that the reason you DON'T do what you suggest is barely it rarely works in real life to any measure of success.

The trained methods are the trained methods because they are the safest ones for the officer and the public (that doesn't assault officers).

My son, who is an Army Green Beret gave me a few pointers, but like I said I don't pretend to be able to shoot any better than the average street cop. I kinda suck. But how much "training" does it take to learn not to shoot an unarmed person who has their hands up?