Congratulations America!

[piece-itpete]

England expects every man to do his duty, and die before his medical bills are too high

It would save us a great deal of money though

Pete

[HatchetJack]

I realize the health care reform is a soft spot for some of you and sounds
good and all wanting to take care of everyone but the back room dealing,
infighting and accusing everyone else of being the problem just stunk and
you saw the results of it last night. Most of the people you think you are helping
dont want to be covered anyway. They would not buy insurance if it was
20 bucks. Hell they may be the smart ones here. Sure there are problems but
if you really want to fix it, one page at a time would be more realistic. To go ahead
and force this thing on us anyway could cripple the democratic party even futher.

[noonereal]

what stinks is that the medical lobby has bough off any meaningful into a wind fall if this goes through.

what happened last night was an aggressive candidate capitalized on a lazy candidate.

Not sure what you mean but I will say Obama has been a terrible spokesman for this plan.

under this knuckle head plan they would be forced to.

This is the wrong bill at the wrong time gone about in the wrong way.
Single payee was never an option. The best healthcare plan in the US is medicare and the Dems let the GOP vilify it. This is a terrible lesson in legislating.

[Sandy G]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

I would bet every dollar I have that the Republicans will *never* lift a finger to do anything about it. I'd love to be wrong about this, but I fear I am not. They are *not* going to start over. Anyone who believes this is more deluded than I am.

We had the one shot we get. Took 15 years to get back to here.

Yeah, and THAT'S the problem, IMHO. We have GOT to get away from the "Adversarial relationship" mentality that pervades almost every facet of our existance today-The idea that in order for ME to win, YOU gotta lose, sucka- And hopefully lose big-time. I trust the great collective wisdom of the American People a helluva lot more than I trust the Democans or Republicrats-We have been trying to tell the politicos something for YEARS now, but NEITHER side ever seems to "Get" it...

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by cabinover

Eddie, what makes you think that forcing MORE payers to donate to private insurers or face fines is a great idea? Sounds like something Republicans would ask for so why on earth would they not push the idea, immediately after calling their stock broker to buy up health insurance stock.

Where would the fine money go? General fund perhaps? How convenient.

The way I see it is that everytime the government meddles in peoples lives it seems to make things worse? Want a great example? WELFARE and it's generations of families living off of it laughing at us working stiffs for paying their way.

My $.02

You've outlined the Republican plan. "We hear you America. You're health care costs are skyrocketing, your insurance is too expensive and too many of you are losing it when you lose your job or get sick. We have a plan. Our plan is to do nothing. But we'll go on and on about how smart it is for us to do nothing".

Why is it a good idea to make everyone be in the pool? You have to have everyone in the pool. That's how you make it less expensive. If you only insure sick people the costs are very high. So you build a system that covers everyone. The right way to do it is to have everyone pay taxes that cover a Universal system. The Republicans killed that before it was even brought up. So the Democrats tried to come up with something the Republicans would think was better- working within the public sector. No "government run" health insurance "getting between you and your doctor". The hell of it is the bastards didn't give a damn what was actually in the bill. They just opposed it. Not on any actual grounds of concern. Just for the politics of it.

And they won. We want to end partisan bickering? That's the bunch many of you keep electing. Takes two to tango. The Senate tried to make a bi-partisan proposal. But even the Republicans who helped frame it voted against it. You can't be unilaterally bi-partisan. As I've said, the Republicans will win simply because they don't care how many Americans die as a result of their lust for power.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

England expects every man to do his duty, and die before his medical bills are too high

It would save us a great deal of money though

Pete

It would save a lot of money. But there are a couple of problems with this argument positioned against the legislation currently proposed. First of all, we aren't looking at a system like England has. Nothing at all like it. Grumpy, look at this post and tell me that people would have rallied behind single payer.

Second, we already have this. Insurance companies already ration care to the elderly, refusing to pay for procedures that younger people would get. "At his age" it's not worth the trouble. "No need to put him through that ordeal".

Finally, it's not actually true. Not that that's been very important in this debate.

[HatchetJack]

Can a normal blue collar hard working American buy in and be covered under
medicare?

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Second, we already have this. Insurance companies already ration care to the elderly, refusing to pay for procedures that younger people would get. "At his age" it's not worth the trouble. "No need to put him through that ordeal".

.

Medicare already exists and does not have a track record of refusing services that private coverage does.

This death panel garbage is both ignorant (those who believe it) and diabolical (by those who propagate it).

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Finally, it's not actually true. Not that that's been very important in this debate.

Not QUITE true.

But uncomfortably... something.

If the bill was so great why did they make sure they'd be out of office before it actually did anything?

Pete

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by HatchetJack

Can a normal blue collar hard working American buy in and be covered under
medicare?

no, and the public option is off the table as well

what is left of this health bill is increased profits for the investor class and nothing more