The Senate.

[mpholland]

Maybe we should allow slander, libel, and the ability to yell fire in a movie theater under the first amendment also.
While we're at it, let's make the second amendment a license to own nuclear weapons and license to kill at will with no consequences.
As I stated elsewhere, having contraception in an insurance package isn't a mandate to use it. What about the person who wants contraception and can't get it because the company they work for won't offer it?
Every right we enjoy under the constitution needs to be regulated in one way or another, especially when the practice of such right can infringe on anothers rights and freedoms.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by mpholland

Maybe we should allow slander, libel, and the ability to yell fire in a movie theater under the first amendment also.
While we're at it, let's make the second amendment a license to own nuclear weapons and license to kill at will with no consequences.
As I stated elsewhere, having contraception in an insurance package isn't a mandate to use it. What about the person who wants contraception and can't get it because the company they work for won't offer it?
Every right we enjoy under the constitution needs to be regulated in one way or another, especially when the practice of such right can infringe on anothers rights and freedoms.

Well said.

[4-2-7]

Originally Posted by mpholland

Maybe we should allow slander, libel, and the ability to yell fire in a movie theater under the first amendment also.
While we're at it, let's make the second amendment a license to own nuclear weapons and license to kill at will with no consequences.
As I stated elsewhere, having contraception in an insurance package isn't a mandate to use it. What about the person who wants contraception and can't get it because the company they work for won't offer it?
Every right we enjoy under the constitution needs to be regulated in one way or another, especially when the practice of such right can infringe on anothers rights and freedoms.

I do understand you can't have your cake and eat it too.

So when the infringing is in line with your view it's ok?
But when it's someone elses view then the laws should be changed to fall in line with you.

"What about the person who wants contraception and can't get it because the company they work for won't offer it?"

Change jobs is a valid option.

As far as I know this is fairly cheap and should not be slipped into a law knowing it's going against the majority of the population.

I want a ferrari and I can't get it.
What happened to the responsibility of oneself, to provide for ones own needs and wants.

I have struggled my whole life to provided for myself and never asked for anyone to do it for me. This is a huge difference in my own personal feeling and ideology than I see from others. You will never be able to change my mined on this. I would rather die than be indebted to others and mooching off the sweat of others backs.

Im sure with the good will of most Americans a Private entity could step in. Run on private donation alone and provide contraception to every woman and man in this country.

This would not infringe on others rights and would be done because people wanted to do it.

[mpholland]

Originally Posted by 4-2-7

I do understand you can't have your cake and eat it too.

So when the infringing is in line with your view it's ok?
But when it's someone elses view then the laws should be changed to fall in line with you.

"What about the person who wants contraception and can't get it because the company they work for won't offer it?"

Change jobs is a valid option.

As far as I know this is fairly cheap and should not be slipped into a law knowing it's going against the majority of the population.

I want a ferrari and I can't get it.
What happened to the responsibility of oneself, to provide for ones own needs and wants.

I have struggled my whole life to provided for myself and never asked for anyone to do it for me. This is a huge difference in my own personal feeling and ideology than I see from others. You will never be able to change my mined on this. I would rather die than be indebted to others and mooching off the sweat of others backs.

Im sure with the good will of most Americans a Private entity could step in. Run on private donation alone and provide contraception to every woman and man in this country.

This would not infringe on others rights and would be done because people wanted to do it.

I don't think that insurance should be work related to begin with, but since it is, employers are just a medium to give workers the coverage the workers need, not necessarily what the employer feels is within their moral scope.

Are you trying to propose to me that the wealthy get that way without relying on the labor of others? For anyone to be an employer they need to have employees. Left up to their own devices many will pay as little and as few benefits as they can. I have no problem with people getting wealthy. My problem comes when they forget how they got that way. That makes me think that most large corporations are indebted to their employees and are mooching off the sweat of others backs.

Planned parenthood is one such organization you describe. Look at the shit they take from the right because they are not a pro-life organization. How many private organizations are going to make themselves a political target to provide contraception.

I am not trying to get you to agree with my position. I am not even sure I have a strong position on a lot of this. I am just pointing out the other side to arguments that go on, and on, and on that have extremists on both sides fighting so hard that the issues never get resolved. Let's get to the meat still left on the bone and compromise a little bit as a nation. We the little people aren't the ones fighting, we are just taking on the fallout. Obama may end up being the best or worst Presdent in our nations history. I don't really give a shit either way, but at least he is doing SOMETHING in this department.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by 4-2-7

I would rather die than be indebted to others and mooching off the sweat of others backs.

Then I recommend some efficiency.

I bet you're thick with subsidies.

[piece-itpete]

I am amazed at what great lengths of absurdity can follow pursuit of beliefs.

Cuts both ways?

Pete

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by mpholland

I don't think that insurance should be work related to begin with, but since it is, employers are just a medium to give workers the coverage the employer feels the workers need, not necessarily what the employer feels is within their moral scope.

Are you trying to propose to me that the wealthy get that way without relying on the labor of others? For anyone to be an employer they need to have employees. Left up to their own devices many will pay as little and as few benefits as they can. I have no problem with people getting wealthy. My problem comes when they forget how they got that way. That makes me think that most large corporations are indebted to their employees and are mooching off the sweat of others backs.

Absolutely.

Planned parenthood is one such organization you describe. Look at the shit they take from the right because they are not a pro-life organization. How many private organizations are going to make themselves a political target to provide contraception.

I am not trying to get you to agree with my position. I am not even sure I have a strong position on a lot of this. I am just pointing out the other side to arguments that go on, and on, and on that have extremists on both sides fighting so hard that the issues never get resolved. Let's get to the meat still left on the bone and compromise a little bit as a nation. We the little people aren't the ones fighting, we are just taking on the fallout. Obama may end up being the best or worst Presdent in our nations history. I don't really give a shit either way, but at least he is doing SOMETHING in this department.

Good Post. Although I did ad change and a comment.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

[QUOTE=4-2-7;192892]
Change jobs is a valid option.

[QUOTE]

Naw. We're all better off when people stay and work, of fight if necessary, to make things better. That's why some keep trying to make it impossible to do. They'd rather you just quit and let them continue to fuck their employees. That's what every tyrant wants; People who just quit and go away, when they tire of his incompetence and/or abuses rather than stand up to him.

Personally, I can't think of anything LESS "American", than just quitting and letting a bastard have his way.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by 4-2-7

I do understand you can't have your cake and eat it too.

So when the infringing is in line with your view it's ok?
But when it's someone elses view then the laws should be changed to fall in line with you.

"What about the person who wants contraception and can't get it because the company they work for won't offer it?"

Change jobs is a valid option.

As far as I know this is fairly cheap and should not be slipped into a law knowing it's going against the majority of the population.

I want a ferrari and I can't get it.
What happened to the responsibility of oneself, to provide for ones own needs and wants.

I have struggled my whole life to provided for myself and never asked for anyone to do it for me. This is a huge difference in my own personal feeling and ideology than I see from others. You will never be able to change my mined on this. I would rather die than be indebted to others and mooching off the sweat of others backs.

Im sure with the good will of most Americans a Private entity could step in. Run on private donation alone and provide contraception to every woman and man in this country.

This would not infringe on others rights and would be done because people wanted to do it.

Me Tarzan, King of Jungle! Me need no one!

Dave

[4-2-7]

Originally Posted by mpholland

I don't think that insurance should be work related to begin with, but since it is, employers are just a medium to give workers the coverage the workers need, not necessarily what the employer feels is within their moral scope.

Are you trying to propose to me that the wealthy get that way without relying on the labor of others? For anyone to be an employer they need to have employees. Left up to their own devices many will pay as little and as few benefits as they can. I have no problem with people getting wealthy. My problem comes when they forget how they got that way. That makes me think that most large corporations are indebted to their employees and are mooching off the sweat of others backs.

Planned parenthood is one such organization you describe. Look at the shit they take from the right because they are not a pro-life organization. How many private organizations are going to make themselves a political target to provide contraception.

I am not trying to get you to agree with my position. I am not even sure I have a strong position on a lot of this. I am just pointing out the other side to arguments that go on, and on, and on that have extremists on both sides fighting so hard that the issues never get resolved. Let's get to the meat still left on the bone and compromise a little bit as a nation. We the little people aren't the ones fighting, we are just taking on the fallout. Obama may end up being the best or worst Presdent in our nations history. I don't really give a shit either way, but at least he is doing SOMETHING in this department.

First highlight.
This is were I think people are confused. You go to work to earn a wage in a currency that you can spend at will.
On top of that as an enticement some employers offer a benefit package that can have a wide range of perks. This is not your pay!! it's a benefit employers are not required at all to give it to anyone. Nor do they have to give it to anyone equally. Healthcare is not attached to anyones work until ACA. Some people want the health care through work because it's much cheaper as a group than if they got it on there own.

Do to this modern convenience and perks that employers offer, people look at it as pay now. Employers like to offer the benefits because they get them cheaper than an individual. So in essence they get the worker for cheaper and the worker gets benefits cheaper.

Planned Parenthood is not privet when they get funding from the government. Take away that funding and use only private contributions I think it would be great. Plus it's already established.

As far as your last paragraph I wholeheartedly agree except the very last part.

The something Obama is doing is and was the wrong timing. Priority one should have been to get people working and the economy strong. I feel everything he has put forth manly ACA has severely slowed a recovery. We are in the longest recession in our history because of it. Millions are suffering needlessly over his ACA and the shock it put into job growth and expansion to the economy. You have to get the engine running before you can move forward. Were running on vapors in fear of a stall we know is still to come.