Israel has invaded Gaza...

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by finnbow

The whole boogie is a feckin' mess and I'm unfortunately convinced that leadership on both sides derive their support/power from keeping it that way.

This is it. (Insert SAD smiley here.)

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by BeamOn

Western organizations that claim to be pro-Israel routinely stifle debate and denounce as anti-Semites those (like me) who persist

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...o-why-cant-we/

The Satmar Hasidics, several thousands strong, are ardently anti Zionists and
do not recognize the political state of Israel, claiming that there cannot be a political state before the coming of the Messiah.

It is very strange to observe these men in full black and wear these big fur hats demonstrating against Israel.

The media here try to keep them out of the public view.
The reason I suspect because the media wants to label any criticism/opposition
to Israel as anti semitic.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EJSkJlh_fg

Sometimes you're really funny TJ...other times you're just a fucking dick.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by finnbow

What first-hand experience do you have on the West Bank that contradicts what I've seen? I trust what I've seen with my own eyes more than what I hear from politicians, the media or partisan zealots.

What I have is the first hand experience clients shared with me personally and intimately. It was not me wandering around the West Bank grinding my teeth and tearing at my hair.

Did you even read my post? These were common people, clients. Several Palestinian families and other families from all over the middle east, Africa, Eastern Europe and Asia. They were not politicians, media, or partisan zealots. Although I suspect that in your head, the only partisan zealots are Israeli Jews, not a partisan zealot in a truckload of Palestinians, eh Finn? My clients were victims of politics, zealotry and sometimes war. Just like the people you may have chatted with. I'm talking about my personal experience with the same people, and we weren't chatting...it was intimate and personal.

And when it comes to war...nobody has anything to compare with the Cambodian and Vietnamese clients in my caseload. Murder, total destruction, total desolation, actual planned genocide, and utter despair. And torture. SE Asian clients suffered persistent torture at the hands of both sides. They were forced to watch family members hacked to pieces or shot, right in front of them. By our people and by their own. One woman watched her grandfather beaten, not quite unconscious and thrown down a well by the United States Marine Corps. The only planful torture that any Palestinians have suffered is at the hands of Hamas and other terrorist organizations. Then again, I'm wrong...nobody has anything to compare with it but European Jews.

My experience contradicts nothing you've seen. The only contradiction is that I have developed a different opinion of who is responsible for it and what will end it. The quality of my information is just as legitimate and, no less intimate an powerful as yours.

Of course, I pretty much know what your response to this will be to this, if there is one. It will be the same as the last one. So, I don't know why I'm wasting my time in this discussion with you anymore.

[MrPots]

When it comes down to it, the bottom line is every time you have a population of "religious" people, you will have hate, intolerance, death and destruction. That's what religion is all about no matter where you are.

The best thing mankind could do for itself is outlaw religion. It's all fairy tale and fantasy anyway.

[MrPots]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

So what are you getting at Ike?

Should I be happy about Israel killing Palestinians because they have it coming because of 9/11?

I'm incensed that they are deliberately targeting women and children.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

You appear to be self-absorbed and terminally unique narcissistic blowhard who works harder at maintaining his own bloated self-image than anything else.

I chuckle at your pomposity.

So, basically, you possess no defense for being unable to rationally think?

Of course not, it's a circular and self-defeating problem...

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

It's like idiot parents telling somebody else they're in no position to have an opinion on parenting or child rearing because "...you've never been a parent." It's utter bullshit.

Sort of like saying "you'll never understand why me dealing out oppression over land I feel entitled to" is okay because you're not Jewish?

Enjoy the petard of your race baiting lack of argument.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by MrPots

I'm incensed that they are deliberately targeting women and children.

It's Hamas that is deliberately targeting women and children. Everybody on this forum has hopped on the Gary Coleman bus. So let's talk about the Gary Coleman bus. Everybody is correct, Hamas can never beat the Israelis. Short of dropping a dozen nukes on Israel, this country couldn't beat the Israelis. Hamas knows it, Hezbollah knows it, they all know it. So what are they going to do? They're going to do what they've been doing for the past 40 or 50 years. They place themselves in locations that purposefully put women and children at risk. Their strategy is that if they can cause enough outrage that Israel is "deliberately targeting women and children" (which is a steaming carload of horseshit), it's their only chance that world opinion will cause Israel to stop retaliating to their terrorism, which isn't going to stop whether Israel stops retaliating to their terrorism or not.

I'm incensed that dead women and children is the primary Hamas strategy. Most of the cons are pissing and moaning that Hamas is hiding behind women and children. That is also a steaming carload of horseshit. Hamas doesn't give a shit in Arafat's hat for dead women and children. Dead women and children are martyrs of the jihad on their way to heaven. Dead women and children is their strategy. If it weren't they would be launching their rockets and firing their mortars as far away from civilian areas as is possible.

Deliberately targeting women and children...my ass.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

What I have is the first hand experience clients shared with me personally and intimately.

That would be second hand from your chair.

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

It was not me wandering around the West Bank grinding my teeth and tearing at my hair.

This would be first hand, which you do not possess.

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

The only contradiction is that I have developed a different opinion of who is responsible for it and what will end it.

Using your second hand information and a widely perceived inability to intellectually reason.

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

The quality of my information is just as legitimate and, no less intimate an powerful as yours.

We've just established that this isn't true, by your own admission.

You possess zero credibility.