How America Killed Its Middle Class

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Seriously BH how long do you really think this country can survive the vast inequality. An economy that all agree is 70% consumer driven will not survive without consumers.

Excellent question.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

At least we might be able to pay for it without going so far into debt.

Dave

Then have to have three jobs for every household to service the debt.

Dave

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

If artificially setting wages actually works (other systems tried says it doesn't) why don't we all make much more? bh is correct mentioning how much more stuff everyone has. Or does the middle class want to go back to 1500-1800 sf 1 or maybe 2 tvs and 1 car - no cable ac computer or cellphone?

Pete

We know it's not as simple as that. Intentionally suppressing wage levels and institutionalized wage theft is not the answer either.

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[BlueStreak]

I suppose this is all just a left wing smear of the saintly employer as well?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft

Dave

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Or does the middle class want to go back to 1500-1800 sf 1 or maybe 2 tvs and 1 car - no cable ac computer or cellphone?

Pete

Yeah, the middle class can afford more electronic toys to numb their mind these days. But like Blue streak said, they have had to go into debt up to their eyeballs to do that.

And when you get to things you actually need to improve your quality life, a college education for you and your kids, health care, your home heating bill, etc. those things have gone way way way up compared to the inflation rate and have been priced out of reach.

As for all those second cars, those have become necessities as the average family can't make it with one wage earner like they could back in the day.

All this has occurred over the last four decades during which we have had the biggest worker productivity gains in human history. If the average working stiff had even gotten a halfway decent share of those gains the average working family would be living on easy street with one wage earner.

But what has happened is that the additional wealth produced by the average working stiffs has been skimmed off by the uber wealthy.

We've been robbed, and we want whats been taken from us back.

And we ain't fucking around either.

It's decision time for them.

They can give it back the easy way in the form of higher taxes, or they can give it back the hard way.

If they choose the hard way they had better start beefing up security on those walls and gates to their estates.

[piece-itpete]

Debt is a personal choice. My dad just about had a heart attack when he signed for our nice but modest home according to my mom. I broke out in hives the day after I signed my first and had to leave work. Yeah that's funny

If we're talking we need more now, that is a different conversation. Houses are a lot bigger. I can see why two incomes are needed.

Pete

[Pio1980]

Debt can come involuntarily unbidden thru illness or injury or as a result of having to interact with our for-profit justice system.

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[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Debt is a personal choice. My dad just about had a heart attack when he signed for our nice but modest home according to my mom. I broke out in hives the day after I signed my first and had to leave work. Yeah that's funny

If we're talking we need more now, that is a different conversation. Houses are a lot bigger. I can see why two incomes are needed.

Pete

I'll agree that houses are a lot bigger on average and that people could do with less. I have 1500 square feet for two people and that's more than we need. But that's all you'll get from me Pete.

When I was a kid we had 1150 square feet and it was fine for three people.
We also had almost half an acre of land and a garage to park our one car in. Nowadays people have 2500 square foot houses on 1/8 of an acre lots, in these soul sucking developments which they mortgage themselves up to a quarter of a million dollars to live in.

And they have three or four vehicles which they park on their lawns and the street. The whole place looks like a Goddamned Used Car lot.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Debt is a personal choice.

Hardly anybody had debt, except for maybe a mortgage in the 1950's when I was growing up. People paid in cash. There was no such thing as a credit card.

But that doesn't mean I buy into your typical right wing "Blame the Victims" crapola.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

If we're talking we need more now, that is a different conversation. Houses are a lot bigger. I can see why two incomes are needed.

Pete

If people downsized their houses to save money the fuckers in the 1% would find a way to suck that money away from them too, just like they have sucked away all the additional money that has come from going from one worker households to two and three.