Citizenfour - Page 5

Ike Bana · #41 03-03-2015, 12:56 PM

Ellsberg on Snowden and the "United Stasi of America."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-stasi-america

Boreas · #42 03-03-2015, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icenine

Mockery of the Constitution? I think we are as free as we ever were. Perhaps the only difference is that in the information age everyone knows what we are doing.

Obviously the Second Amendment is still sacred.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Well said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Ellsberg on Snowden and the "United Stasi of America."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-stasi-america

You seem to have had a change of heart.

Ike Bana · #43 03-03-2015, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boreas

You seem to have had a change of heart.

I don't think so. I feel as free as I ever have. And I don't believe that's in conflict with knowing that if the government is lying through it's teeth to us or compromising our Constitutional rights to privacy it needs to stop.

I'm just glad we have people like Ellsberg and Snowden who took great personal risk and suffered great personal hardship and consequences for the rest of us. Ellsberg in particular has been a hero of mine for over 40 years now. The most dangerous man in America. Absolutely goddamn right.

Boreas · #44 03-03-2015, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

I don't think so. I feel as free as I ever have. And I don't believe that's in conflict with knowing that if the government is lying through it's teeth to us or compromising our Constitutional rights to privacy it needs to stop.

It certainly seems to imply a conflict if indeed you recognize that the government is compromising (I prefer the word abrogating) our right to privacy (and I wouldn't limit this abrogation to just privacy).

John

nailer · #45 03-03-2015, 03:47 PM

I'm as free as I've ever been.

How can the government abrogate an undefined right?

Ellsberg faced the music for his crime. Snowden needs to man up for me to not question his motives. A true patriot would.

bobabode · #46 03-03-2015, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nailer

I'm as free as I've ever been.

How can the government abrogate an undefined right?

Ginsberg faced the music for his crime. Snowden needs to man up for me to not question his motives. A true patriot would.

'Beat' poetry is a crime? Who knew?

nailer · #47 03-03-2015, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobabode

'Beat' poetry is a crime? Who knew?

Howl is a killer flick.

Boreas · #48 03-03-2015, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nailer

I'm as free as I've ever been.

No, you're not. You just haven't bumped up against the "new normal" yet.

Quote:

How can the government abrogate an undefined right?

You sound like Scalia. The right is established, inferred from other rights enshrined in the Constituton.

Anyway, the right to privacy was Ike's hook to hang his argument from, not mine, and I did say that privacy wasn't the only concern. There's due process for a start. The government has arrogated unto itself the right to imprison and even kill anyone they damn well please, including US citizens.

Quote:

Ellsberg faced the music for his crime. Snowden needs to man up for me to not question his motives. A true patriot would.

I care a hell of a lot more about what Snowden did than I do about why he did it. What he did was a huge service to the country, whether that was what motivated him or not.

John

icenine · #49 03-03-2015, 04:55 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_6792280.html

merrylander · #50 03-04-2015, 08:01 AM

Frankly I can't see what all the fuss is about. My life has not changed because of Spook City. I fear Google, Yahoo, and such ilk more as they track every search and sell that information. Microsoft and their effing 'cookies' are more dangerous.