Israel has invaded Gaza...

[bobabode]

I'll watch CNN when Jon Stewart buys it.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Well, that's one way to look at it I guess.

The fundamental flaw with that analysis is that the only folks who have it as their stated agenda to kill the other side in the conflict is Hamas. Hamas will not be satisfied until the Jews are exterminated and Israel is destroyed. That desire is stated right in the Hamas Charter, and its repeated often not only by Hamas but their allies in Iran, Hezbollah, etc.

That's an interesting one-sided analysis. You do realize that the same UN that created Israel in 1948 also established borders for the West Bank in 1967 and that all of the Israel settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem (which house over a half million Israelis) violate this UN resolution. Do you also know that 134 UN member nations voted to recognize Palestine as a nation and Israel voted against it. It seems that, like Hamas, Israel doesn't acknowledge the right of their opponent to exist.

Lastly, did you realize that the genesis of the current troubles center around Bibi's reaction to the 3 settler kids who were killed. He proceeded to arrest 300-400 people and destroy a bunch of homes based upon his views of who was responsible (before any guilt was adjudicated).

He wanted to use this "opportunity" to excise Hamas from its recently announced coalition with Fatah, notwithstanding the fact that not a single Hamas member was selected to serve in Abbas' government. Bibi has succeeded in alienating both West Bank Palestinians and Israeli Arabs and neutering Abbas, someone who was actually willing to talk about peace and was able to represent the West Bank and Gaza in the process. Well played, Bibi.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Yes sir. Whoops, I mean, pound sand Imagine paying out money to patronage jobs instead of say people building infrastructure for lasting improvement. Although that does sound eerily familiar.

The billion + a year isn't innuendo however inconvenient it may be.

Imagine paying out money so people can actually have some instead of having to live in holes?

The poiint is, you don't have anything but one number, and assumptions, all negative. That is bullshit.

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I thought all lefties were bigoted scum

All that smilee does it take the thing from brass insult to slightly passive-aggressive insult. Go fuck yourself.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

I have often question Hamas tactics. I personally do not like Hamas.

However it looks like Hamas has won this one.

Hamas has exposed Israel...

Precisely.

Israel is appropriately being perceived as South Africa with an American supplied military.

Uh oh.

[Rajoo]

Israel's security cabinet rejects cease-fire proposal

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...lict/13147175/

"The conflict — in its 18th day — has killed 828 Palestinians and left 5,200 injured, said Ashraf al-Kidra, a Palestinian health official. In Israel, 38 people have been killed since July 8, including 35 soldiers, two Israeli civilians and a Thai worker."

Seems to be no end in sight.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by djv8ga

What BS. Why are they mad at CNN when the only people who watch that crap are a few Leftys like Bobabode?

Well it seems CNN, especially last night has shown that Israel and Hamas
are made out of the same shit.

Israel does not like that: with special regard to an American audience it likes to claim moral superiority.

The Israeli representative was real mad with CNN for showing graphically
Israel shelling of the UN shelter occupied by women and children.

[piece-itpete]

DQ, Ike and I have been enjoying a rough back and forth - I think? on a rare issue we agree on. I suspect we have some background in common.

Arafat died a billionaire:

".....a team of American accountants–hired by Arafat's own finance ministry–began examining Arafat's finances; this team reached a different conclusion. The team claimed that part of the Palestinian leader's wealth was in a secret portfolio worth close to $1 billion, with investments in companies like a Coca-Cola bottling plant in Ramallah, a Tunisian cell phone company and venture capital funds in the US and the Cayman Islands. The head of the investigation stated that "although the money for the portfolio came from public funds like Palestinian taxes, virtually none of it was used for the Palestinian people; it was all controlled by Arafat. And none of these dealings were made public."[116]

An investigation conducted by the General Accounting Office reported that Arafat and the PLO held over $10 billion in assets even at the time when he was publicly claiming bankruptcy.[117]

Although Arafat lived a modest lifestyle, Dennis Ross, former Middle East negotiator for Presidents George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton, stated that Arafat's "walking-around money" financed a vast patronage system known as neopatrimonialism. According to Salam Fayyad—a former World Bank official whom Arafat appointed Finance Minister of the PNA in 2002—Arafat's commodity monopolies could accurately be seen as gouging his own people, "especially in Gaza which is poorer, which is something that is totally unacceptable and immoral."

...."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_...ncial_dealings

Billions squandered? :

BILLIONS of euros in European aid to the Palestinians may have been misspent, squandered or lost to corruption, according to a damning report by the European Court of Auditors, the Luxembourg-based watchdog.

Brussels transferred more than £1.95bn to the occupied territories between 2008 and 2012 but had little control over how it was spent, the auditors say in an unpublished report seen by The Sunday Times.

EU investigators who visited sites in Jerusalem, Gaza and the West Bank noted “significant shortcomings” in the management of funds sent to Gaza and the West Bank. Gaza is controlled by Hamas, which is classified as a terrorist organisation by the EU.

......"

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1326858.ece

And I seem to remember that one of the reasons Hamas beat Abbas's org was corruption.

Pete

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

That's an interesting one-sided analysis. You do realize that the same UN that created Israel in 1948 also established borders for the West Bank in 1967 and that all of the Israel settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem (which house over a half million Israelis) violate this UN resolution. Do you also know that 134 UN member nations voted to recognize Palestine as a nation and Israel voted against it. It seems that, like Hamas, Israel doesn't acknowledge the right of their opponent to exist.

Lastly, did you realize that the genesis of the current troubles center around Bibi's reaction to the 3 settler kids who were killed. He proceeded to arrest 300-400 people and destroy a bunch of homes based upon his views of who was responsible (before any guilt was adjudicated).

He wanted to use this "opportunity" to excise Hamas from its recently announced coalition with Fatah, notwithstanding the fact that not a single Hamas member was selected to serve in Abbas' government. Bibi has succeeded in alienating both West Bank Palestinians and Israeli Arabs and neutering Abbas, someone who was actually willing to talk about peace and was able to represent the West Bank and Gaza in the process. Well played, Bibi.

If you're referring to UN Resolution 242, you do realize that the Palastinians going all the way back to the PLO never accepted it? Talk about one-sided: the UN wants to enforce a resolution on Israel that no one see is willing to abide by.

You also need to be extremely nearsighted, ignoring on going rocket attacks and suicide bombings, etc. to suggest that this latest chapter is only about 3 kids.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by whell

If you're referring to UN Resolution 242, you do realize that the Palastinians going all the way back to the PLO never accepted it? Talk about one-sided: the UN wants to enforce a resolution on Israel that no one see is willing to abide by.

You also need to be extremely nearsighted, ignoring on going rocket attacks and suicide bombings, etc. to suggest that this latest chapter is only about 3 kids.

that's the party line is it?

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Bibi has succeeded in alienating both West Bank Palestinians and Israeli Arabs and neutering Abbas, someone who was actually willing to talk about peace and was able to represent the West Bank and Gaza in the process. Well played, Bibi.

I'll point this out yet again:

At the Camp David summit in 2000, Ehud Barak offered to dismantle most settlements and create a Palestinian state in exchange for peace, and Yasser Arafat rejected the plan.

Going back even further to 1977, months after a Likud government committed to greater settlement activity took power, Egyptian President Anwar Sadat went to Jerusalem. One year later, Israel froze settlements, hoping the gesture would entice other Arabs to join the Camp David peace process. Not one Arab nation did.

The West Bank flap is just another red herring. The central and recurring theme for the Arab states and the Palastinians is their collective desire for the destruction of Israel.