Obama Critics Speak Out!

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Twodogs

Well, if capitalism is indeed dying (or dead), I guess it was a hell of a run.

Heck yeah! The capitalists had a heck of a time until that liberal Congress and president destroyed their way of life with social security, the terrible child labor laws, the ridiculous OSHA regulations, the insane concept of safe food and medication. I could on for days about the liberals and how they destroyed the poor capitalists.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by JJIII

"i find it difficult to understand anyone who would be against taking from the rich and giving to the poor, unless they were rich themselves."

That's just plain scary!

What I have found interesting is why so many good hard working people would vote against their own best interests in order to identify with the "ruling class." Clearly tribal bonding can be more compelling than good old fashion logic. Although I understand it, people not taking the time to understand what is best for themselves and family and placing that ahead of there identification need is just plain scary to me.

[JJIII]

IMO, what is best for me and my family is to be able to work and earn and keep for ourselves what we earn. We can decide who or what causes we want to contribute to. I will never agree that it is right for anyone to come and at the point of gun take what I/we worked for. I agree that taxes are necessary for a military force, for infrastructure, and limited other uses but things have gotten completely out of hand. Charity ought to be local. At a local level it can be determined who really needs help and who the deadbeats are. Washington is too far away to know what is going on locally. We have gone so far towards centralized everything that I doubt we can ever get back but I can hope. In the meantime continuing on the path that we are on now will only bring more of the problems that we have now.

(By the way...My wife and I gross less than $60,000.00 per year and neither of us have inheirited anything other than a couple of pieces of furniture. We are hardly rich.)

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by JJIII

IMO, what is best for me and my family is to be able to work and earn and keep for ourselves what we earn.

I doubt you would find anyone to disagree with you on that in principle. I see government has having a broader roll than what you mentioned for the simply reason that any capitalistic based market will look to victimize the masses for it's profit and we need way more protection than might appear on the surface. Just think of the FDA, Child labor laws, OSHA. The list goes on forever of programs that have been necessary in order to protect the working stiff from a profit first economy.

[Twodogs]

Originally Posted by noonereal

Heck yeah! The capitalists had a heck of a time until that liberal Congress and president destroyed their way of life with social security, the terrible child labor laws, the ridiculous OSHA regulations, the insane concept of safe food and medication. I could on for days about the liberals and how they destroyed the poor capitalists.

Dude? What are you talking about? Why are libs always so angry? You people are the biggest bunch of self hating, whiny, "poor me" ball babies the world has ever seen. I can't imagine wasting my life being so miserable. Get over yourselves.

[Charles]

Welcome to the "New World Order" folks.

It's a whole lot like the shitty "Old World Order", the money men are going to get their cut 1st, and control every aspect of your life...given the chance.

And they're taking it. I call it playing both sides against the middle.

Chas

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Twodogs

Dude? What are you talking about? Why are libs always so angry? You people are the biggest bunch of self hating, whiny, "poor me" ball babies the world has ever seen. I can't imagine wasting my life being so miserable. Get over yourselves.

Now that right there is unfriendly.
I am not sure how to respond.
Do you take issue with the fact that the capitalists fought tooth and nail against the programs I cited? Do you think that the capitalists were correct and programs like I mentioned should not be in place?
Are you advocating the repeal of the Osha act? the Child labor laws?
Do you find people who think that these laws are good to be self hating miserable and an angry lot?
Are you just yanking my chain?
Fact is, unbridled capitalism has never been good for the masses and government plays a very important role in balancing a capitalistic approach to the market place with the good of all the citizenry.

The only thing I understood from your post was that you get upset with people who challenge your beliefs????????????
or you are just messin' around?

[Twodogs]

Originally Posted by noonereal

Now that right there is unfriendly.
I am not sure how to respond.
Do you take issue with the fact that the capitalists fought tooth and nail against the programs I cited? Do you think that the capitalists were correct and programs like I mentioned should not be in place?
Are you advocating the repeal of the Osha act? the Child labor laws?
Do you find people who think that these laws are good to be self hating miserable and an angry lot?
Are you just yanking my chain?
Fact is, unbridled capitalism has never been good for the masses and government plays a very important role in balancing a capitalistic approach to the market place with the good of all the citizenry.

The only thing I understood from your post was that you get upset with people who challenge your beliefs????????????
or you are just messin' around?

Nah, I didn't intend to be mean, I guess I was just frustrated (sorry). As for OSHA, have you ever had any dealings with them? Like every other government agency, they have become nothing more than a corrupt "money grab". I've worked in the industrial trades all my life, and have seen OSHA in action more times than I can count with my shoes off and zipper open. They never do anything until "after" something happens, and then it's just levy fines. It was the Labor Unions (coal miners in fact), that got the ball rolling on job safety. OSHA, the EPA, and all the other bullshit government Nazi programs, just suck money like leaches and drive manufacturing to China.

[soundhound]

Originally Posted by noonereal

Fact is, unbridled capitalism has never been good for the masses and government plays a very important role in balancing a capitalistic approach to the market place with the good of all the citizenry.

unfortunately for the huddled masses, they don't do a very good job of it.

[soundhound]

Originally Posted by Twodogs

OSHA, the EPA, and all the other bullshit government Nazi programs, just suck money like leaches and drive manufacturing to China.

can't disagree with this point entirely. the various government agencies that control industry, trade, finance, etc. are all too big, too red-taped, too slow to act, to fast to act, act ridiculously sometimes, and there is some degree of corruption in the systems.

unfortunately, they are a necessary evil. people or groups of people who have a lot of money will take advantage of people who don't have a lot of money in order to increase the amount of money that they already have with little regard to the rights, health, or safety of the poor people they exploit, or the environment unless someone stops them.

but the reason why our manifucturing base has moved to china is that, 1)labor costs are vastly lower, 2)tariffs are very low, 3)taxes are very low. in a nutshell, they can produce something in china, bring it into the country, and cover the cost of shipping it here for much less money than they could if they made it here.

certainly complying with the various regulations our country has imposed through it's various judicial entities contributes to this being true. but hey, i don't want manufacturers to polute the environment. if the epa stops them from doing that, that's great with me. if they chose to go polute china, which allows them to do so, instead of america, does that make it right for them to do so?

i'm all for down-sizing our government. but it must not be reduced to the size where it cannot protect the working class and middle class from the wealthy. if allowed, the rich will take it all. that's the nature of greed. they don't give a fuck about the rest of us.