Beginning of the end of Putin?

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Blah...fucking...blah...who fucking cares about this bullshit minutiae about the sociopathic behavior of Russian oligarchs and autocrats.

This "war" is an act of pure murderous aggression by a sick war criminal who is clearly following the Hitler Sudetenland playbook. There's no other discussion required.

One last thing...the Russian people are cut from the same fucking cloth as the good little nazi Germans in the 1930's, lining the streets and throwing up the Hitler salute.

I agree: No one should care about the minutiae of Russian autocrats and oligarchs; that the war is an act of aggression. However, the Russians are not the ones throwing up Nazi salutes.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

I agree: No one should care about the minutiae of Russian autocrats and oligarchs; that the war is an act of aggression. However, the Russians are not the ones throwing up Nazi salutes.

So, you're trying to convince us that this Wagner Group commander, Dmitry Utkin, who sports Nazi tattoos is not a Nazi?

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

However, Prigozhin is a loudmouth and a mercenary, and officers schooled in Soviet doctrine abhor such.

Two things - Prigozhin (and the Ukrainian Army) revealed how ineffective and incompetent Soviet military doctrine is. In the past 1.5 years, the Russian Army went from the second most powerful Army in the world to second most powerful in Ukraine to second most powerful in Russia.

Secondly, Putin just said that Wagner was entirely financed by the Russian state through the MOD and the state budget. From May 2022 to May 2023, the Russian Federation, through its Ministry of Defense, paid Wagner 86 billion rubles.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Two things - Prigozhin (and the Ukrainian Army) revealed how ineffective and incompetent Soviet military doctrine is. In the past 1.5 years, the Russian Army went from the second most powerful Army in the world to second most powerful in Ukraine to second most powerful in Russia.

Secondly, Putin just said that Wagner was entirely financed by the Russian state through the MOD and the state budget. From May 2022 to May 2023, the Russian Federation, through its Ministry of Defense, paid Wagner 86 billion rubles.

I guess you have not read anything from active US general Cavoli.

Your statement in the first paragraph underlines your lack of sanity.
How does one rate a state with more nuclear warheads than the USA?
I believe over 5000 and with various means of delivery.

What you have not been told is how many Ukrainian armies have been destroyed. That the Ukrainian population in Ukraine has been halved - that is
criminal...approaching genocide. That is what Milley, Cavoli, and Austin have been telegraphing.

BTW Putin and the Russian state are not the officer corps.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

I guess you have not read anything from active US general Cavoli.

Your statement in the first paragraph underlines your lack of sanity.
How does one rate a state with more nuclear warheads than the USA?
I believe over 5000 and with various means of delivery

I was addressing their military doctrine, not their weapons inventory. Throwing convicted criminals into a meat grinder without air support and with 70 year old tanks isn't exactly the state of the art in terms of military doctrine, nor is torture, murder, sabotaging dams and nuclear plants and the indiscriminate bombing of civilian targets. Attacking Kiev down a motorway constrained by the (infamous) Pripyat marshes (an obstacle known well to the Third Reich 75 years ago), resulting in a rout of their forces in a battle they thought they'd win in 3-4 days isn't exactly indicative of effective military doctrine.

Russia is fundamentally incapable of a protracted and effective combined arms warfare, the telltale indicator of modern military capability and doctrine. Indeed, they have not yet even established air superiority in Ukraine after 1.5 years, something we could have done in a week. The have no meaningful amphibious capability and their navy is a fucking joke (they have one piece of shit aircraft carrier that travels with its own tugboat (when it's not in drydock) and their Black Sea flagship was sunk by a nation who doesn't even have a navy).

In short, despite impressive numbers in terms of men and equipment, their conventional forces have proven themselves to be a Potemkin army, largely by virtue of their antiquated doctrine, endemic corruption and general ineptitude. Consider for a moment that the Wagner Group is considered to be the most effective (conventional) fighting force in Russia and how a group of 40 Marines completely obliterated a force of 500 attackers led by Wagner near Khasham, Syria in 2018 without suffering a single casualty.

[Rajoo]

After some more reading, it seems Putin was gunning for Prigozhin for some time, perhaps his rants against the military leadership. It has been reported the Putin and Shoigan have very close bonds and so Putin made life very difficult for Prigozhin by cutting military aid and contracts after Bakhmut, catering contracts got sparse, his forces were going to be taken away by absorbing them into the Russian army, etc. This may have driven Prigozhin over the edge and ended up with him leading an insurrection, allegedly against Russian military leadership but definitely Putin was his target.

[RickeyM]

Putin Narrowly Escapes Assassination Attempt

Seems somebody is out to get tRump's bestie. The question now is who?

[Mark B]

Originally Posted by RickeyM

Putin Narrowly Escapes Assassination Attempt

Seems somebody is out to get tRump's bestie. The question now is who?

Color me skeptical.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

I agree: No one should care about the minutiae of Russian autocrats and oligarchs; that the war is an act of aggression. However, the Russians are not the ones throwing up Nazi salutes.

The Russian people are looking the other way behind the war criminality of their government. No different from the good little nazis cheering along the streets of Germany, looking the other way, ignoring the smell coming from crematoriums at Buchenwald, Bergen-Belsen, Dachau, and other death camps inside Germany.

And of course another MAGA suggestion that the Ukraine government is full of nazis. Everybody hates the Jews...why is it suddenly such a big problem that it includes plenty of Ukrainian christians??? You really think anti-Semitism is any worse in Ukraine than in Russia? Or anywhere else in Europe...the south of France, for instance? Feh...that's yiddish for Feh.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

However, the Russians are not the ones throwing up Nazi salutes.

Oh, really?

At least two neo-Nazi groups are fighting for Russian forces in Ukraine, throwing into question Moscow’s claims of “denazifying” its neighbor, German weekly Der Spiegel reported Sunday, citing a confidential intelligence report.

The document shared with German ministries by the BND intelligence service does not provide the exact number of far-right fighters, but identifies them as the Russian Imperial Legion and Rusich groups.

Their involvement “makes the ostensible reason for war, the so-called ‘denazification’ of Ukraine, absurd,” BND is quoted as saying.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/...spiegel-a77762