What do you think about Chaz in Seattle?

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Close enough.

My take, from the evidence. It'll likely slowly clean up and reopen without intervention.
Hopefully, grievances will be heard and constructively addressed.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by TryToFindmid

Yeah I dont see any positive benefit it brings. I imagine it looses more sympathizers to the original cause than it gains.

And yes, I too agree the businesses are unfair victims if their needed income is badly affected.

We will never know the impact of disbanding the police station. It affected response times for calls. And patrols. I know some will praise this. But I'm not in the camp of all cops are bad nor the idea their general actions show more harm than good.

It's a real shame the focus wasnt more on police reform and transparency. Bad cops and poor handling affects all races genders identity. I feel this tragedy could have turned into something bigger and broader. And one more people may have felt welcomed by and share their stories and pain for police reforms.

Given the nature of people angry over folks dieing in police custody it's a shame Tony Timpa's cam footage of his death wasnt added to the outrage vids. It's one of the most offensive police handling vids I've ever seen.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_c-E_i8Q5G0

My son's friend was not responding to phone calls so he went over to see how he was doing. This was at around six PM. He had a key and went in. His friend was laying dead on the floor. He called the cops and they said it was too dangerous for cops or paramedics to come over because of the rioting (this is a few blocks from CHAZ). He locked the door and left.

He got a call at around five the next morning from the cops saying they were ready to come pick up the body. The paramedics were two rather frail women that had a heck of a time getting the body out of there but did not want his help.

This whole thing speaks to why I carry in my car. Your safety is your responsibility. The cops' job is to make a feeble effort to catch who did it to you. I prefer to be in a position where I prevented "it" from being "done".

[TryToFindmid]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

A member of my family was killed in custody on camera under worse circumstances by a department whose commander received a presidential pardon for gross continued abuse of authority.
Websearch "Scott Norberg".

OMG wow... I just watched this. I assume this is he?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BeOd_Ukm_s

That was absolutely disgusting and a shameless coverup. How evil that was seeing those morgue pics and the clear group beating he received. And to have been kicked in the neck then strangled with a towel. Completely inhuman.

This is a BIG part of what Im emphasizing, mishandling by cops / jailers so on happens to all races genders so on. And its too bad this didnt spring board into the much bigger picture it clearly is.

Its easy for some folks to paint everyone voicing or better yet, feeling the all lives matter movement as right wing bigots. And to be fair, some, especially the ones getting air time, are. I suspect that notion is growing in many people however. I also think it creates confusion and anger in some by the core of that ideas dismissal.

Again its too bad there wasnt more of an effort made to culminate all victims of police mishandling / wrong doing in this movement. There would have been far more videos / stories to add to the goals and show how its affecting far more people than most might have known. Also made it feel inclusive to all and I bet it would have resonated with the mass population even more so.

One of the newest Rogan podcasts was with ex navy seal Jocko Willink. It was extremely informative about how badly police training, certifying, maintenance is handled. And he sheds ALLOT of light onto how things should really be handled and why its going so wrong. Hearing a man with real knowledge in how to handle volatile situations was a breath of fresh air.
It was also frightening to see just how badly our current situation is being handled and has been for some time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL5RzI5LyVc

[mpholland]

My take is that protesting should be regulated just as any other right. Most rights are regulated to some degree to protect the rights and/or safety of others. The typical go to cliche being yelling "fire" in a crowded theater is not freedom of speech.

Protesting is fine and should be allowed and encouraged in places where it belongs. Protest the government at government offices, don't interfere with the lives of your fellow man by impeding their rights to live as they see fit. In my opinion when you start injuring your neighbors you are actually injuring your own cause in the eyes of your fellow man. I am not sure about how the Capitol area is laid out in Seattle, but the zone they tried to implement in Portland last night blocked NW Glisan St. and NW Everett St. at around 11th Ave., which contain the main freeway entrance and exit for I-405 to get in and out of northwest Portland. Trying to block that flow of traffic, especially on a weekday morning is at best a bad idea. From all reports so far they were upset about the new budget. They only removed 16 million from the police budget and the protestors were looking for 50 million (6.5% vs 20%).

[TryToFindmid]

Originally Posted by Not Insane

My son's friend was not responding to phone calls so he went over to see how he was doing. This was at around six PM. He had a key and went in. His friend was laying dead on the floor. He called the cops and they said it was too dangerous for cops or paramedics to come over because of the rioting (this is a few blocks from CHAZ). He locked the door and left.

He got a call at around five the next morning from the cops saying they were ready to come pick up the body. The paramedics were two rather frail women that had a heck of a time getting the body out of there but did not want his help.

This whole thing speaks to why I carry in my car. Your safety is your responsibility. The cops' job is to make a feeble effort to catch who did it to you. I prefer to be in a position where I prevented "it" from being "done".

Yeah I hear what your saying 100%.

Its so sad and defeating things got so out of control with all the players in this mess, including the cops.

I also feel theres ALLOT that went into why the cops now behave why they do and have been for some time. And I dont envy their plight. And their mishandling has allot to do with poor training, standards, pay, their own sense of victimization, and a sense of defeat. I cant imagine why anyone wants to do that job.

This whole thing is so screwed up all around.

So sorry to hear of your sons friend. What a scary reality.

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by TryToFindmid

OMG wow... I just watched this. I assume this is he?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BeOd_Ukm_s

That was absolutely disgusting and a shameless coverup. How evil that was seeing those morgue pics and the clear group beating he received. And to have been kicked in the neck then strangled with a towel. Completely inhuman.

This is a BIG part of what Im emphasizing, mishandling by cops / jailers so on happens to all races genders so on. And its too bad this didnt spring board into the much bigger picture it clearly is.

Its easy for some folks to paint everyone voicing or better yet, feeling the all lives matter movement as right wing bigots. And to be fair, some, especially the ones getting air time, are. I suspect that notion is growing in many people however. I also think it creates confusion and anger in some by the core of that ideas dismissal.

Again its too bad there wasnt more of an effort made to culminate all victims of police mishandling / wrong doing in this movement. There would have been far more videos / stories to add to the goals and show how its affecting far more people than most might have known. Also made it feel inclusive to all and I bet it would have resonated with the mass population even more so.

One of the newest Rogan podcasts was with ex navy seal Jocko Willink. It was extremely informative about how badly police training, certifying, maintenance is handled. And he sheds ALLOT of light onto how things should really be handled and why its going so wrong. Hearing a man with real knowledge in how to handle volatile situations was a breath of fresh air.
It was also frightening to see just how badly our current situation is being handled and has been for some time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL5RzI5LyVc

This is why I prioritize accountability with uniform mandatory standards and practices. Accountability that goes to the top.

[TryToFindmid]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

This is why I prioritize accountability with uniform mandatory standards and practices. Accountability that goes to the top.

No arguments here.

I keep saying I have no idea why ALL cops dont have cameras that are on ALL the time they are on duty.

And if the footage is not pending review or not being used in a trial ALL of it should be available to anyone requesting it for review if they were involved.

This mess is so much bigger in scale and I dont understand why it isnt being looked at in that light more so.

[mpholland]

Originally Posted by TryToFindmid

No arguments here.

I keep saying I have no idea why ALL cops dont have cameras that are on ALL the time they are on duty.

And if the footage is not pending review or not being used in a trial ALL of it should be available to anyone requesting it for review if they were involved.

This mess is so much bigger in scale and I dont understand why it isnt being looked at in that light more so.

I think cameras aren't championed by police not because they won't work, but because they would work too well. I think every time a government entity deosn't want to do the right thing it boils down to economics.

Don't take this as a defense by me as I don't believe in it, but lets say the Portland police bureau has roughly 1000 officers. Now if 1% of those officers get caught making a "mistake" that would be 10 prosecutions/convictions. Now lets say each one of those gets a 10 million dollar payout. The payout may not be that high to the victim, but after paying costs of all things involved with the prosecution including wages and legal fees I don't think its out of line. The highest cases could easily be more. That is 50 million or 20% of the whole police budget. Now that is just with 1% of the force making one "mistake" in the course of a year.

Those numbers are probably very conservative for Portland, but rather laughable for other cities in the country. No, the offenses won't typically be mistakes, that is just the word I chose for ease of writing.

[TryToFindmid]

Originally Posted by mpholland

I think cameras aren't championed by police not because they won't work, but because they would work too well. I think every time a government entity deosn't want to do the right thing it boils down to economics.

Don't take this as a defense by me as I don't believe in it, but lets say the Portland police bureau has roughly 1000 officers. Now if 1% of those officers get caught making a "mistake" that would be 10 prosecutions/convictions. Now lets say each one of those gets a 10 million dollar payout. The payout may not be that high to the victim, but after paying costs of all things involved with the prosecution including wages and legal fees I don't think its out of line. The highest cases could easily be more. That is 50 million or 20% of the whole police budget. Now that is just with 1% of the force making one "mistake" in the course of a year.

Those numbers are probably very conservative for Portland, but rather laughable for other cities in the country. No, the offenses won't typically be mistakes, that is just the word I chose for ease of writing.

Yeah that is a very good point.

It also reflects my disgust for everything becoming litigious. Theres a time and place for it. Now its largely abused. Think countless law firm commercials and class action ones.

It also creates allot of corporate mismanagement imo.

Again I see it's legit need, but like everything else in today's world it gets taken to the extreme.

It might make for laws drafted to limit such cases. In the end would folks be happier knowing cops would be weeded out easier and quicker and be willing to forfeit a payout for the greater good???

This also highlights the need for emphasis on better and more regular training. Also in the super interesting Rogan Jocko sit down he explains this in great depth. And wow it shows how things are not being handled well at all now.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by TryToFindmid

No arguments here.

I keep saying I have no idea why ALL cops dont have cameras that are on ALL the time they are on duty.

And if the footage is not pending review or not being used in a trial ALL of it should be available to anyone requesting it for review if they were involved.

This mess is so much bigger in scale and I dont understand why it isnt being looked at in that light more so.

I am agreement. Partial video is what resulted in the LA riots. The court of public opinion kept seeing the last 8 seconds of video. The court of law saw the whole thing and found in favor of the officers.

At the end of the day, the court of public opinion is a kangaroo court.