Trumps is in!

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by merrylander

In that event the death toll would heve been closer to 100. Even our trained police can't shoot straight.

Under enough stress, nobody can shoot straight. Even the best (Delta? SEAL?) bend to physiology.

John Q. in a nightclub? It's ridiculous to believe armed citizens there would have improved things.

[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Under enough stress, nobody can shoot straight. Even the best (Delta? SEAL?) bend to physiology.

John Q. in a nightclub? It's ridiculous to believe armed citizens there would have improved things.

Yeah, it would have been awful if a couple of armed citizens killed somebody accidentally when he first started the crap before they killed the terrorist. Much better to just let him kill 49.

[MrPots]

Wasn't there an armed police man or security guard in the club at the time of the attack?

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

Yeah, it would have been awful if a couple of armed citizens killed somebody accidentally when he first started the crap before they killed the terrorist. Much better to just let him kill 49.

Aah, the collateral damage, where have we heard that before?
You really believe that an average citizen, nay a good guy with a gun is going to take the chance of shooting an someone else by accident? You will need to be a borderline psychopath to take that chance.

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by MrPots

Wasn't there an armed police man or security guard in the club at the time of the attack?

Yes, it's a matter of record.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

Yeah, it would have been awful if a couple of armed citizens killed somebody accidentally when he first started the crap before they killed the terrorist. Much better to just let him kill 49.

Yeah sure, the good guy with a snub nose .38, once the bullet leaves that 1-3/4" barrel who knows where it is going. Plus the good guy is so nervous he is waving it around like a flag in a high wind. But they sure can talk the good fight. Have you ever killed anyone ZJ? Most people will hesitate before pulling the trigger.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

Yeah, it would have been awful if a couple of armed citizens killed somebody accidentally when he first started the crap before they killed the terrorist. Much better to just let him kill 49.

Yep, a surprised drunk guy dancing in a nightclub with a pistol in is pocket is going to take out a guy with an assault rifle under the flashing lights and pulsing music. Only in your alternate universe of stupidity.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

Aah, the collateral damage, where have we heard that before?
You really believe that an average citizen, nay a good guy with a gun is going to take the chance of shooting an someone else by accident? You will need to be a borderline psychopath to take that chance.

Anyone who would take that shot shouldn't have a gun.

When I see some gun nut pat his strong side hip -- so everyone on Earth knows he has a concealed weapon thereby making concealment irrelevant -- and says something like "that theater shooter wouldn't have had a chance if me and Ole Bess' had been there?"

I laugh out loud.

A trained operator would have gone:

1. Cover?
2. Concealment?
3. Make him come to you.

A semi-automatic magazine fed carbine, carried by a determined shooter, bearing every tactical advantage?

Dozens of armed John Q.'s (a danger unto itself) would have NO CHANCE.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

Yeah, it would have been awful if a couple of armed citizens killed somebody accidentally when he first started the crap before they killed the terrorist. Much better to just let him kill 49.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...nap-story.html

I am going to quote the article about the policeman who was moonlighting and probably armed with a pistol:

"An off-duty police officer working as a security guard had traded gunfire with the shooter at the entrance to the club and called for backup.

It’s not clear why the off-duty officer didn’t pursue the gunman into the club, Canty said, but it’s not surprising.

“That officer is by himself and doesn’t know how many people are involved. The guy is obviously armed with more advanced weaponry,” Canty said. Mateen had a handgun and a Sig Sauer MCX assault-style rifle. "

Even if a person in the club had a weapon that does not mean they could automatically fight the attacker. If it is a choice between getting in a firefight and dying and possibly escaping alive I think I would escape. That is human nature. People in the military think the same way in combat. No one is expected to charge machine gun nests in suicide missions.

The good guy with a gun argument is total bullshit. Now the cop in the club probably did the very best he could with his smaller weapon and is a good person and helped out in the situation. But he was not matched in weaponry with the killer and acted accordingly.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by icenine

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...nap-story.html

I am going to quote the article about the policeman who was moonlighting and probably armed with a pistol:

"An off-duty police officer working as a security guard had traded gunfire with the shooter at the entrance to the club and called for backup.

It’s not clear why the off-duty officer didn’t pursue the gunman into the club, Canty said, but it’s not surprising.

“That officer is by himself and doesn’t know how many people are involved. The guy is obviously armed with more advanced weaponry,” Canty said. Mateen had a handgun and a Sig Sauer MCX assault-style rifle. "

Even if a person in the club had a weapon that does not mean they could automatically fight the attacker. If it is a choice between getting in a firefight and dying and possibly escaping alive I think I would escape. That is human nature. People in the military think the same way in combat. No one is expected to charge machine gun nests in suicide missions.

The good guy with a gun argument is total bullshit. Now the cop in the club probably did the very best he could with his smaller weapon and is a good person and helped out in the situation. But he was not matched in weaponry with the killer and acted accordingly.

Ice, let's take it one step further. Say the off duty policeman/security guard is ex-special forces and a highly trained sharpshooter, cool under pressure etc. If he took a pot shot at the assassin, he will be one of the first ones dead, no match against an automatic (just to piss JJ3 off) assault weapon and then will be of no help to anyone. So staying alive and finding a tactical spot is his first priority.

Carnage will continue regardless. So Zero is simply parroting the NRA talking points and TJ is being intentionally dense on this topic. God guys with guns and no gun free zones are just promotional dialog for the gun manufacturers represented by the NRA.