So no matter what happens in Massachusetts tomorrow..

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Whose to say we would not have gotten those things without bush in for a second time ?

The wars and the tax cuts which combined to wreck our economy and our image around the world happened in Bush's first term.

John

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Sorry but if I hear the words "Free Market" again I might just buy a gun. Greed is ever with us and will not go away any time soon.

As for the Wall Street boys They contribute nothing to the nation, only take, and take some more, and yet more. ..

And the most perplexing thing of all are the hoards of well intended, proudly self relent folks who somehow unknowingly act as their bitches.

Let them do their own tea baggin'.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

It was no secret I supported Single payer insurance for every last one of us, regardless of income.

.

Same here. The bill presently being considered is garbage, more income for the investor class.

[doucanoe]

Originally Posted by noonereal

I agree. Obama appears to be resolute in his agenda without recognizing that circumstance often dictates agenda for the successful in government.

In all honesty, I respect a man who has convictions and stands by them. I may not agree with them but do respect that. It's just that we have some very pressing issues to address right now and Climate Change (for example) falls pretty far down on the list for me personally. I would have to believe that he is not spending every waking moment on this but by the same token, enough already.

I would like to believe that this, we could agree on.

RC

[Writewing]

I think Obama needs a big change and I agree bouncing Rahm would be a great start. Polls come and go and swing up or down but I think there is a pattern here and while I am not an the inside I do think Obama needs to not only adjust his goals but needs to seriously make an effort to work with the Right. Like it or not the message of "NO" is working simply because the majority dont like his agenda.
Just like the country held Bush accountable for his "Read my lips" promise the country is turning on Obama for his broken ones aswell but its a series of promises not one big soundbite. Everyone can see its business as usual, everyone can see there is no more transparency but infact there is less, many can see deals being made by special interest groups yet we were told the wouldnt find their way into 1600, he promised a Net across the board cut in spending, sorry folks, he said he was going to "ban all earmarks" that didnt happen, he promised any Bill would be posted for 5 days online for the public to view before he signs, broke that one too, and the latest promise he made that folks have come to remember is the fact he attacked John McCain as a guy who was going to "Tax healthcare benefits" and proudly noted that McCains idea was so unpopular it has never in the history of our country been done.
So the left can blame the Right as the party of NO, can blame the media for relentlessly reminding folks how our President strayed from both his message and promise he ran on, can blame the past administration for what it "inherited", he can blame like the best of him but until he starts taking control and responsibility for his own actions I think he and his party are in for a long cold day in November no matter what happens tonight.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by doucanoe

In all honesty, I respect a man who has convictions and stands by them. I may not agree with them but do respect that. It's just that we have some very pressing issues to address right now and Climate Change (for example) falls pretty far down on the list for me personally. I would have to believe that he is not spending every waking moment on this but by the same token, enough already.

I would like to believe that this, we could agree on.

RC

I would agree with you that climate change should not hold top billing now. To the extent that is is relevant to the discussion of the bigger issues, it does make sense, for example, to promote jobs by promoting green jobs. Steps taken for short term solutions should not be inconsistent with what has to be done to resolve long term issues. (That is one of the reasons I believe that focus on the healthcare bill is warranted, because failure to effect some reform now, can have seriously detrimental economic effects.) (For today's English lesson, note that I have utilized two different meanings of the word "effect" in one sentence.)

BTW, as I have stated elsewhere, I have some serious issues with cap and trade.

Regards,

D-Ray

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by doucanoe

In all honesty, I respect a man who has convictions and stands by them. I may not agree with them but do respect that. It's just that we have some very pressing issues to address right now and Climate Change (for example) falls pretty far down on the list for me personally. I would have to believe that he is not spending every waking moment on this but by the same token, enough already.

I would like to believe that this, we could agree on.

RC

convictions without reassessment is not admirable

time is change, it is the nature of life, we need to continually challenge our judgment given new circumstance

[cabinover]

Me too. Talk about an investor's dream! I don't know which will make more money, health reform as the bill is now or cap and trade.

[merrylander]

You know it is really strange, when I had my immigration hearing they really wanted to know if I understood the concept of checks and balances. I guess if you are born here they don't care if you grasp the concept or not.

L'homme propose, le Dieu dispose.

The president can propose all he wants but if that dumbass congress wants to go another way the best he can do is veto their bills. If they have enogh votes to override his veto he is SOL.

As Yogi said "When you come to the fork in the road, take it."

[doucanoe]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

I would agree with you that climate change should not hold top billing now. To the extent that is is relevant to the discussion of the bigger issues, it does make sense, for example, to promote jobs by promoting green jobs. Steps taken for short term solutions should not be inconsistent with what has to be done to resolve long term issues. (That is one of the reasons I believe that focus on the healthcare bill is warranted, because failure to effect some reform now, can have seriously detrimental economic effects.) (For today's English lesson, note that I have utilized two different meanings of the word "effect" in one sentence.)

BTW, as I have stated elsewhere, I have some serious issues with cap and trade.

Regards,

D-Ray

I do also (cap and trade that is).

Being in the housing and commercial construction industry for almost 25 years now, I am very attuned to "green" efforts how many have jumped on board for profit and to conform to regulation. If you could see some of the inner workings of it, I believe you might see a lot of it as a bit of a joke. Be that as it may, jobs are jobs as long as they aren't all just built on the notion of green.

We really need to start to produce a viable product in this country soon or it's going to be government and service related jobs for all of us. If you subscribe any to the notion that government does produce a product as such, we had better start investing in the private sector.

For those of you who say, well, don't just bitch, provide some solutions I give you this...

Maybe a good place to start would be to tax the hell out of corporate entities that wish to produce products overseas and at the same time, wish to bring them back for sale here. At the same time, provide incentives to manufactures that produce a product here for sale here. This would stimulate job growth here by allowing companies who wish to play by the rules the additional capitol to grow and hire.

Maybe thats just a naive approach to things from a guy who likes to cut to the chase I'm just a guy who would like to get to the heart of the problem (some of it anyway) and deal with it accordingly.

Sorry about the somewhat off topic rant. I just can't help myself

RC