Call me slow but did we have these before the new Admin ?

[Twodogs]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Let me say it more clearly.

You advocate overthrowing the government of the United States by armed force.

You say you love the Constitution.

I was pointing out the Constituion specifically defines overthrowing the government of the United States as illegal. You can not love the Constitution if you want to commit treason against it.

Does that clear up your confusion?

OK, I get it now, sorry. I feel like it would be defending the constitution though. Have you ever really read it? Washington isn't even pretending to recognize it any more. Let's say Obama is a great guy, and in 8 years everything is roses. Then we get someone elected who blatantly starts converting our government to say Fascism. After a couple years every business of any size is under government control. The government is deciding all our health care issues, and has "files" on every citizens medical info. Soldiers are starting to refuse to go into battle, denying this guys authority, and even his citizenship. The guy has legislation introduced to do away with term limits. Then, then, the guy goes down to wherever they keep the original document and shreds it to bits! He then announces that he is the supreme leader, and we are all his subjects. Would it be ok to "rise up in arms" then, or would it be treason?

[merrylander]

"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such, because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as others have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."

Excerpt from Ben Franklin's speech at the Philadelphia Convention. Quoted without comment.

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by merrylander

"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such, because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as others have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."

Excerpt from Ben Franklin's speech at the Philadelphia Convention. Quoted without comment.

Looks like the writing has been on the wall for quite a while doesn't it?

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Twodogs

Washington isn't even pretending to recognize it any more.

What has congress, the president ot the supreme court done to make you say this?

[Charles]

Originally Posted by merrylander

"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such, because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as others have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."

Excerpt from Ben Franklin's speech at the Philadelphia Convention. Quoted without comment.

Nice find, my hat's off to you, Sir.

Always being a fan of Natural Law (is that Locke...been a long time since skool), I can live with a ruling equal, but I have no use for a master.

Kind of reminds me of a magazine article I read years ago where the author suggested ditching the Stars and Stripes for the Gadsden Flag. As he put it, "Fuck with me and I'll kill you, what a great slogan for a country!"

IMHO, what a great slogan for everyone, but us Scott/Irish always have been hard heads.

Chas

[chuckworkb]

Does anyone else think it's odd that a democracy even has Czars?

I think it's just another way to get your buddy who gave you a truck load of cash during your campaign a job.

I remember the Drug Czar, I see a Czar worked on that problem.

[merrylander]

Chas, I found that speech of Franklin's in Madison's "Notes of Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787" ISBN 0-393-30405-1, published by W. W. Norton & Company.

I poersonally think it should be required reading in our schools - I have been through it three times so far. I picked it up along with the Federalist Papers prior to my naturaliztion hearing as I thought I might get some tough questions. Ha! You are required to write an English sentence as part of the procedure, some of the people in the waiting room I doubt could have done so.

[Twodogs]

Originally Posted by noonereal

What has congress, the president ot the supreme court done to make you say this?

First thing that comes to mind is taxes.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Twodogs

First thing that comes to mind is taxes.

You forget the commerce clause. Our betters have found this to be the ultimate shoehorn for regulating the behavior of us peons and making a buck while doing so.

But since it's for our own collective good, who am I to complain.

Chas

[Twodogs]

Originally Posted by Charles

You forget the commerce clause. Our betters have found this to be the ultimate shoehorn for regulating the behavior of us peons and making a buck while doing so.

But since it's for our own collective good, who am I to complain.

Chas

Yep, and silly me, I thought that was one of the big reasons we drew up the declaration of independence. In my thinking, taxation without representation is everywhere in our society. For example, convicted felons do not have the right to vote, so how can they be taxed?