who is best equipped to change this?

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Charles

Well, you may have a point about Rupert running the show, he is a member of the CFR.

But a right wing crazy???

I don't think I said he was but he does hire them and give them a platform.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/election/834

Pretty much how I see him.

I stand by my previous statement, it's all a dog and pony show to keep us entertained, or at one another's throats.

You won't get an argument from me about that.

John

[finnbow]

Whenever I think of Murdoch, I can't help but think of the villian in the Bond movie "Tomorrow Never Dies." Apparently, this character was intended as a spoof on Murdoch.

[Combwork]

[QUOTE=finnbow;34669]If you think the bloodletting over the health care bill, TARP or the financial bill was nasty, any action by the Democratic Party to change this would likely be just the thing to tip the balance toward the armed insurrection feared in another recent thread.

Could that justify limiting access to firearms? Just asking; in practical terms once guns are out there they're out there; not too many enthusiasts would hand them over even if they were asked nicely.

The whole thing about gun control is interesting. Up to the end of the Napoleonic war, the only real gun control over here was cost; your average working man couldn't afford one but when the war ended, that plus the French revolution lead to the government (scared shitless at the thought of unemployed infantrymen wandering the streets, fully armed and unemployed) bringing in the first gun control laws.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Combwork

Could that justify limiting access to firearms? Just asking; in practical terms once guns are out there they're out there; not too many enthusiasts would hand them over even if they were asked nicely.

The whole thing about gun control is interesting. Up to the end of the Napoleonic war, the only real gun control over here was cost; your average working man couldn't afford one but when the war ended, that plus the French revolution lead to the government (scared shitless at the thought of unemployed infantrymen wandering the streets, fully armed and unemployed) bringing in the first gun control laws.

While some enhanced degree of gun control is certainly desirable here, we can't even get to the point of having a dialogue on what that degree may be. Gun ownership is so inculcated into our culture (not to mention in many people's interpretation of the 2nd amendment) that any discussion of instituting reasonable controls elicits caterwauls about "the camel's nose under the tent," government overeach, freedom, liberty, Founding Fathers, ...

Accordingly, most national politicians do not see it as career enhancing to even discuss it. The only politicians who dare even talk about gun control are big city mayors. Their constituents are predominately Democrats and are among those most effected by gun violence. They are about the only ones for which support for gun control is not a career ending move.

That said, there are already more guns in the US than there are people. Hell, there are certainly more guns in my house than there are people and by the standards of gun fanciers, I'm just a piker. Controls at this point are tantamount to shutting the barn door after the horse bolted.

[Combwork]

Originally Posted by finnbow

That said, there are already more guns in the US than there are people. Hell, there are certainly more guns in my house than there are people and by the standards of gun fanciers, I'm just a piker. Controls at this point are tantamount to shutting the barn door after the horse bolted.

That's pretty much the point I was making, once they're out there they're out there. The old mantra "guns don't kill people, people kill people" has some truth in it. I reckon when it comes down to it, whether a mugger threatens you with a gun or a knife the result will be the same; you're not going to risk being killed just so you can keep your 'phone.

In theory, as far as the general public are concerned guns are difficult to get but in practice? A friend of mine lives and works in Dundee and tells me that just as some bars have access to drugs, others have access to guns; it's just a matter of money.

You know why I don't like guns? Another friend of mine had a WW2 revolver plus bullets stashed away in my workshop (after splitting up with his wife half his household was there). I didn't know he had a gun until he showed me; he thought I'd be interested in the mechanism. I held it and it felt so right, fitted my hand like a glove. I told him to get the fucking thing out of there and never bring it back.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Combwork

In theory, as far as the general public are concerned guns are difficult to get but in practice? A friend of mine lives and works in Dundee and tells me that just as some bars have access to drugs, others have access to guns; it's just a matter of money.

Its' not in the least difficult to get guns here legally. We do have a mandatory (though minimal) criminal background check but there's an exemption for "gun shows", essentially gun flea markets held at the local sports arena, convention center or some such. At these there is no requirement for a background check at all. A convicted murderer, for instance, can just walk in and buy any sort of legal firearm which, by the way, includes many types of semi-automatic military assault rifles.

John

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Combwork

You know why I don't like guns? Another friend of mine had a WW2 revolver plus bullets stashed away in my workshop (after splitting up with his wife half his household was there). I didn't know he had a gun until he showed me; he thought I'd be interested in the mechanism. I held it and it felt so right, fitted my hand like a glove. I told him to get the fucking thing out of there and never bring it back.

I think part of the difference is that many here have been brought up with guns. For example, I used to go to the rifle range with my dad by the time I was 8 years old. The same now applies to my kids. I belong to a shooting club and take my kids (including my daughter) shooting a lot. Accordingly, they don't fear guns, but they sure do respect them (and fear their use by the untrained).

Even though I own a dozen or so guns, the idea of using a gun for self-defense scares me. Other than for cleaning, my guns stay locked up in a safe in the basement for which I alone have the key. Having a loaded pistol in a bedroom nightstand would scare the shit out of me.

Also, with regard to carrying a pistol for self-defense, I would much rather make it a point to go places and do things where my personal security is not threatened enough to need a sidearm. In fact, there's never been an instance in my life (and I've lived in and visited some pretty rough places) that I felt that I would have felt more comfortable carrying a gun. I think in most instances, a gun will escalate a bad situation into a worse situation.

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by finnbow

.... The only politicians who dare even talk about gun control are big city mayors. Their constituents are predominately Democrats and are among those most effected by gun violence. They are about the only ones for which support for gun control is not a career ending move. ...

Heck the only reason they can go pro gun is the poor folks will vote for them regardless of what they actually do. I suppose the specter of 'guns' scare the better neighborhoods though.

Most of those folks most effected by gun violence own one. When gangs control every street corner there is no other way.

When I was selling temp service in the city I sure would've carried a gun. The NRAs magazine has a section on CCW saving people. Happens every day practically.

I believe all kids should receive gun safety training in early elementary school.

Pete

[finnbow]

The NRAs magazine has a section on CCW saving people.

Not specifically on CCW, but on the use of personal firearms being used for self defense, much of which is in the home, IIRC. They don't seem to give as many column inches to gun violence and accidents though.

Happens every day practically.

I don't know the numbers, but I'm dead certain that the incidence of illegal gunplay/violence and accidents outnumber the use of firearms in self-defense by several orders of magnitude. I've been around guns and shot guns for nearly 50 years and I've never met a person to have actually used one in self defense.

I have had a gun pulled on me though - by a CCW carrier (a New Orleans "hobby" cop) over a parking space. Staring down the barrel of a .357 Magnum when the holder is dead drunk and wanting the parking space that you just pulled into is a frightening experience. It's probably a good thing (for me and the miscreant as well) that I was also drunk and not carrying.

Another gun story - I was on the way back from pheasant hunting in high school when we stopped for gas and cigs on the way home. One of the guys (his first (and last) time with us) asked to get into the trunk of the car while we went inside. He got out the 12 guage autoloader that had jammed (and the idiot hadn't cleared it in the field) decided to tinker with it in the backseat when it went off. It blew a hole the size of your fist through the back door of my friend's mothers car. Damn lucky he didn't blow up a friggin' gas pump.

I guess my problem is that it is as easy to buy a gun as a pack of cigarettes in many parts of this country. It's way easier to get a gun that a driver's license nearly everywhere (except inside the big cities). Something just ain't right and the politicians are too scared to address the issue.

I could easily live in a country where they only allowed long arms and no autoloaders of any type (except in certain circumstances). Hell, I have lots of modern guns and I deliberately hunt deer during rifle season with a muzzleloader and even a bow.

[piece-itpete]

Yeah, my neighbor likes his old fashioned hunting too

Good gravy I've never had a gun pulled on me! A knife yes...

And me and friends would've kicked that idiots rump for that misfire stunt.

I hope you called the cops on the ccw idiot. The law doesn't play with those guys.

But it doesn't change the fact that we are supposedly free adults.

Pete