The Affordable Care Act

[merrylander]

Interesting note the last place I worked was self-insured but they had Aetna administer their plan. Apparently Aetna had screwed some employees who had gone to out-of-group doctors (Yes kiddies you could not pick your own, or you got paid less if you did). Well it seems there is a class action suit against Aetna but who keep records that long, so I am ignoring it. However it does go to show that all was not sweetness and light before ACA.

[Ike Bana]

I know I complain when the cons do these sorts of comparisons...but that's life...so here goes.

Did we make this much noise over the WMD lies? Probably.

Thing is...it was WMD not some soccer mom's matching shoes and handbag fucking insurance plan in Keokuk. It was 3,000+ dead American service people and a 300,000+ dead innocent Iraqis for christ's sake.

[whell]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Interesting note the last place I worked was self-insured but they had Aetna administer their plan. Apparently Aetna had screwed some employees who had gone to out-of-group doctors (Yes kiddies you could not pick your own, or you got paid less if you did). Well it seems there is a class action suit against Aetna but who keep records that long, so I am ignoring it. However it does go to show that all was not sweetness and light before ACA.

So what's the issue? The insurance that is being sold through Obamacare exchanges across America will work exactly the same way. It goes to show that, as I've posted numerous times, if you don't like the current system, then you should dislike Obamacare since it simply makes all things you don't like about the current system "the law of the land".

[whell]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Well, whell...tough shit. Where were these whiny small business owners every time there was a premium hike over the last 45 years? They were where they are now...and what was their response? Passing it on to their employees, or dumping the nice PPO plans entirely and forcing some piece of shit HMO plan on the workers because it was putting a dent in their bottom line...and not a peep out of any of them. And not a peep out of the workers either, who had to change plans and change doctors. (Been through it a number of times myself with various and sundry providers and employers.)

But now...now when it's poor people finally having the opportunity to have coverage and now when it's the Kenyan anti-colonialist driving the changes in the structure...now it's an outrage.

Give it a rest.

Ah, the voice of reason. So, business exists for the sole purpose of providing comp and benefits to workers, huh?

Tell me something: what if YOU ran one of these businesses? After taking 10 - 20% increases in your health insurance costs every year for 15 - 20 years, would you just keep eating the increases, as you appear to want the "whiny small business owners" to do? You seem to be whining about the reduction of benefit levels in your post above, so I'm assuming that if you ran your own business, you'd just keep on taking the increases and not passing any of the year over year increases along to your employees. Nor would you ever consider modifying plan designs - just take the richest plan available and pay the premium for it, no matter the cost.

So, where would the money come from to pay the escalating premium costs year after year? I'm sure since you'd be such an astute business man, you'd figure out a way. I'm sure that you'd not pass along any increase to the customer, so you'd simply chose to take less in compensation every year to offset the cost of premium. And of course, your employees aren't simply going to continue to happily work for you without annual wage increases, so you'd simply take less in compensation to offset the cost of wage increases every year. No matter that we're still mired in a recession with around 1% economic growth, which means that new customers aren't lining up to buy your product and sales are pretty flat each year. You'll happily take less income yourself to offset these costs.

So, while you're happily reducing your salary to offset increasing employment costs, your cost of raw materials are going up. Your customers are demanding price concessions due the soft economy, or challenging payment and credit terms. You still need to make investments in plant maintenance and equipment. You still need to make payments to your investors and shareholders. And of course, your business taxes certainly aren't going down. No matter. You'll just continue to happily accept less for your hard work of running a business, 'cuz the prevailing wisdom is that you're a greedy bastard and reducing your employment costs to remain profitable simply risks reinforcing that stereotype.

Give it a rest.

[donquixote99]

some small business owners are selfless noble heroes. Some are greedy tyrants. Most are somewhere between. Likewise, the ACA is neither the best nor the worst thing that ever happened to small business. But it isn't a plot to destroy them.

10-minute loves or hates on small business owners have nothing to do with how much we should love or hate the ACA, and how we should vote in the next election.

[Rex E.]

Originally Posted by whell

Ah, the voice of reason. So, business exists for the sole purpose of providing comp and benefits to workers, huh?

Tell me something: what if YOU ran one of these businesses? After taking 10 - 20% increases in your health insurance costs every year for 15 - 20 years, would you just keep eating the increases, as you appear to want the "whiny small business owners" to do? You seem to be whining about the reduction of benefit levels in your post above, so I'm assuming that if you ran your own business, you'd just keep on taking the increases and not passing any of the year over year increases along to your employees. Nor would you ever consider modifying plan designs - just take the richest plan available and pay the premium for it, no matter the cost.

So, where would the money come from to pay the escalating premium costs year after year? I'm sure since you'd be such an astute business man, you'd figure out a way. I'm sure that you'd not pass along any increase to the customer, so you'd simply chose to take less in compensation every year to offset the cost of premium. And of course, your employees aren't simply going to continue to happily work for you without annual wage increases, so you'd simply take less in compensation to offset the cost of wage increases every year. No matter that we're still mired in a recession with around 1% economic growth, which means that new customers aren't lining up to buy your product and sales are pretty flat each year. You'll happily take less income yourself to offset these costs.

So, while you're happily reducing your salary to offset increasing employment costs, your cost of raw materials are going up. Your customers are demanding price concessions due the soft economy, or challenging payment and credit terms. You still need to make investments in plant maintenance and equipment. You still need to make payments to your investors and shareholders. And of course, your business taxes certainly aren't going down. No matter. You'll just continue to happily accept less for your hard work of running a business, 'cuz the prevailing wisdom is that you're a greedy bastard and reducing your employment costs to remain profitable simply risks reinforcing that stereotype.

Give it a rest.

As usual, you've complete missed the point. The point was, why were all of these businesses, Faux news and legions of "patriots" so quiet for all these years not complaining about the increases? Why is it now that they are jumping up and down and not for the past four decades?

[icenine]

Originally Posted by whell

Ah, the voice of reason. So, business exists for the sole purpose of providing comp and benefits to workers, huh?

Tell me something: what if YOU ran one of these businesses? After taking 10 - 20% increases in your health insurance costs every year for 15 - 20 years, would you just keep eating the increases, as you appear to want the "whiny small business owners" to do? You seem to be whining about the reduction of benefit levels in your post above, so I'm assuming that if you ran your own business, you'd just keep on taking the increases and not passing any of the year over year increases along to your employees. Nor would you ever consider modifying plan designs - just take the richest plan available and pay the premium for it, no matter the cost.

So, where would the money come from to pay the escalating premium costs year after year? I'm sure since you'd be such an astute business man, you'd figure out a way. I'm sure that you'd not pass along any increase to the customer, so you'd simply chose to take less in compensation every year to offset the cost of premium. And of course, your employees aren't simply going to continue to happily work for you without annual wage increases, so you'd simply take less in compensation to offset the cost of wage increases every year. No matter that we're still mired in a recession with around 1% economic growth, which means that new customers aren't lining up to buy your product and sales are pretty flat each year. You'll happily take less income yourself to offset these costs.

So, while you're happily reducing your salary to offset increasing employment costs, your cost of raw materials are going up. Your customers are demanding price concessions due the soft economy, or challenging payment and credit terms. You still need to make investments in plant maintenance and equipment. You still need to make payments to your investors and shareholders. And of course, your business taxes certainly aren't going down. No matter. You'll just continue to happily accept less for your hard work of running a business, 'cuz the prevailing wisdom is that you're a greedy bastard and reducing your employment costs to remain profitable simply risks reinforcing that stereotype.

Give it a rest.

Sometimes Whell I think you have never been on the opposite side of the telescope.....I have not either, but my experience has been broader than most.

Imagine you are not the guy sitting at a desk in HR ....imagine your the guy 180 degrees away.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by whell

Ah, the voice of reason. So, business exists for the sole purpose of providing comp and benefits to workers, huh?

Ok if you are correct then what in hell is wrong with people buying their own insurance on the exchanges set up by Obama?


oh
yeah
your belief in the false debt crisis....

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by whell

So what's the issue? The insurance that is being sold through Obamacare exchanges across America will work exactly the same way. It goes to show that, as I've posted numerous times, if you don't like the current system, then you should dislike Obamacare since it simply makes all things you don't like about the current system "the law of the land".

Whell the issue is that we did not hear a peep out of you in past years when 10 and 20% increases in premiums was the law of the land. So we know that you are only bitching now because it Obamacare. As long as it was United Healthcare or Humana, or Aetna you did not say a damn word.

Sure ACA is a screw-up, when have you people ever done anything halfway intelligent about healthcare? Every other industrialized nation does it better at half the price, so what other conclusion can we draw?

[bobabode]

Two words, 'single payer'. It's the only way to get a handle on ever increasing costs.