General Giap Dead At 102

[piece-itpete]

Saddams' military might see that differently

And Assad may disagree too. For not liking it we sure keep a hellofa army.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

"Will", Pete, means public will and the will of the leaders they elect. It has little to do with the military itself.

Dave

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I'm happy to admit we don't like it.

Pete

Persons of reason and sanity and decency don't like war, but not everyone meets that description, alas.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

And, don't have the will to do it right anymore?

"doing it right" has so many descriptions.

We don't have the will to conquer and 'pacify' a place like Iraq in the way that gives quick and effective (for a gnereation) results, but as that would have involved killing millions of them, I don't think that lack is actually a failing.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

That's what makes a war. Two sides with leaders who think it's 'worth it.'

In fact, it wasn't, for either side, and in the long run it didn't matter much who 'won.'

Vietnam paid too huge price for national identity.

South Vietnam could be like South Korea.

[merrylander]

Not hardly, one of the reasons things went the way they did in 'Nam was the corruption if the leaders in the south.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Vietnam paid too huge price for national identity.

South Vietnam could be like South Korea.

With an aggressive enemy across their northern border for 60 years and counting? I think many Vietnamese would prefer their current status. Their economy is pretty decent shape, actually.

http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/fea...t-key-findings

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

We haven't had "the will" since 1945. So, when are we going to stop hearing about how bad ass we are and just admit that we don't really like war?

I don't know about before that, but certainly for Vietnam and everything after that, it's been all about feeding the Military Industrial Complex.

And the MIC doesn't want to win, they want to keep the revenue stream flowing.

Ike, one of the last good Republicans IMO, really nailed it back in 1961.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg-jvHynP9Y

[icenine]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Vietnam paid too huge price for national identity.

South Vietnam could be like South Korea.

you need to read Fire In The Lake by Frances Fitzgerald.

LBJ made the same mistake that you do...thinking that all Vietnam needed was infrastructure and Western imposed democracy. You should also check out the book by Halberstam called The Best and the Brightest. In short the author posits that South Vietnam was not really a nation since it could not exist without America propping it up.

We should have listened to Graham Greene.

[piece-itpete]

We might indeed have lost SE Asia without the sacrifices made in Vietnam.

Pete