More lunatics with AR15s.

[mpholland]

I suppose there is no way he could have killed two people with a handgun. It isn't uncommon for semi-auto pistols such as the Beretta 90 or the Smith & Wesson M&P to hold 15 or 17 rounds plus. They are a lot easier to conceal than an assault rifle also.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I get you guys, but find it interesting that the thought of them is the problem.

Btw, the small outfits down south may buy guns from Pops Gun Shack, but the big guys buy their guns off the world arms market.

Pete

Pete...we are the world arms market...

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by icenine

Pete...we are the world arms market...

Yeah, we're pumping out AK 47s like there is no tomorrow.

From WIKI...

Production outside of the Soviet Union/Russia

Military variants only. Includes new designs substantially derived from the Kalashnikov.
Country Variant(s)
Albania
Automatiku Shqiptar model 56 (ASH-78 Tip-1) Albanian Automatic Assault Rifle Model 56 Type-1 [Made in Poliçan Arsenal] (Straight forward copy of Type 56, which in turn is a clone of the Soviet AKM rifle)
Automatiku Shqiptar Tipi 1982 (ASH-82) Albanian Automatic Assault Rifle Type 1982 [Made in Poliçan Arsenal] (Straight forward copy of AKMS)
Automatiku Shqiptar model 56 (ASH-78 Tip-2) Albanian Light Machine Gun [Made in Poliçan Arsenal] (Straight forward copy of RPK)
Automatiku Shqiptar model 56 (ASH-78 Tip-3) Albanian Automatic Hybrid Rifle Model 56 Type-3 [Made in Poliçan Arsenal] (Hybrid rifle for multi-purpose roles mainly Marksman rifle with secondary assault rifle and grenade launcher capability)
Other unknown variants.
Several other unnamed & unidentified versions of the AKMS have been produce mainly with short barrels similar to the Soviet AKS-74U mainly for special forces, Tank & Armoured crew also for Helicopter pilots and police.
There have also been modifications and fresh production of heavily modified ASh-82 (AKMS) with SOPMOD accessories, mainly for Albania's special forces RENEA & exports.
Bangladesh Chinese Type 56
Bulgaria AKK (Type 3 AK-47), AKKS (Type 3 with side-folding buttstock)
AKKMS (AKMS) AKKN-47 (fittings for NPSU night sights)
AK-47M1 (Type 3 with black polymer furniture)
AK-47MA1/AR-M1 (same as -M1, but in 5.56 mm NATO)
AKS-47M1 (AKMS in 5.56x45mm NATO), AKS-47MA1 (same as AKS-47M1, but semi-automatic only)
AKS-47S (AK-47M1, short version, with East German folding stock, laser aiming device)
AKS-47UF (short version of -M1, Russian folding stock), AR-SF (same as −47UF, but 5.56 mm NATO)
AKS-93SM6 (similar to −47M1, cannot use grenade launcher)
RKKS, AKT-47 (.22 rimfire training rifle)
BARR-101 (semi-automatic-only version with a 5-round magazine)
Cambodia Chinese Type 56, Soviet AK-47, and AKM
People's Republic of China Type 56
German Democratic Republic MPi-K (AK-47), MPi-KS (AKS), MPi-KM (AKM), MPi-KMS-72 (AKMS), KK-MPi Mod.69 (.22-Lr select-fire trainer);
Egypt AK-47, Misr assault rifle (AKM), Maadi.
Ethiopia AK-47, AK-103 (manufactured locally at the State-run Gafat Armament Engineering Complex as the Et-97/1[62])
Hungary AK-55 (domestic manufacture of the 2nd Model AK-47)AK-63D/E (AMM/AMMSz), AKM-63, AMD-65, AMP-69, NGM-81(AK-63 in 5.56mm NATO)
Iraq Tabuk Sniper Rifle, Tabuk Assault Rifle (with fixed or underfolding stock, outright clones of Yugoslavian M70 rifles series), Tabuk Short Assault Rifle
India Trichy Assault Rifle 7.62 mm, manufactured by Ordnance Factory Tiruchirappalli of Ordnance Factories Board[63]
Iran KLS (AK47), KLF (AKS), KLT (AKMS)
Israel IMI Galil
Finland RK 62, RK 95 TP
Macedonia M60
Nigeria Produced by the Defence Industries Corporation of Nigeria as OBJ-006[64][65]
North Korea Type 58A (Type 3 AK-47), Type 58B (stamped steel folding stock), Type 68A (AKM-47) Type 68B (AKMS), Type 88 (AKS-74)[66][67]
Pakistan Reverse engineered by hand and machine in Pakistan's highland areas near the border of Afghanistan; more recently the Pakistan Ordnance Factories started the manufacture of an AK47/AKM clone called PK-10[68]
Philippines ARMSCOR MAK22 and MAK22FS

[69]
Poland pmK/kbk AK (name has changed from pmK – "pistolet maszynowy Kałasznikowa", Kalashnikov SMG to the kbk AK – "karabinek AK", Kalashnikov Carbine in mid-1960s) (AK-47), kbkg wz. 1960, kbk AKM (AKM), kbk AKMS (AKMS), kbk wz. 1988 Tantal based on the 7.62 mm kbk AKMS wz. 81, kbs wz. 1996 Beryl
Romania PM md. 63 (AKM), PM md. 65 (AKMS), PM md. 90 (AKMS), collectively exported under the umbrella name AIM or AIMS, Draco Pistol 7.62X39mm
PA md. 86 (AK-74), exported as the AIMS-74
PM md. 90 short barrel, PA md. 86 short barrel, exported as the AIMR
Serbia M92, M21, M70
South Africa R4 assault rifle
Sudan MAZ,[70] based on the Type 56
Vietnam Chinese Type 56, Soviet AK-47, AK-74, AK-108 and AKM
Venezuela License granted, factory under construction[71]
Yugoslavia M60, M64 (AK-47 with longer barrel), M64A (grenade launcher), M64B (M64 w/ folding stock), M66, M70, M70A, M70B1, M70AB2, M76, M77, M-21

Certainly more have been produced elsewhere; but the above list represents known producers and is limited to only military variants. An updated AK-47 design is still produced in Russia.

I don't seem to find U.S.A. in there anywhere.

[icenine]

wtf?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by mpholland

I suppose there is no way he could have killed two people with a handgun. It isn't uncommon for semi-auto pistols such as the Beretta 90 or the Smith & Wesson M&P to hold 15 or 17 rounds plus. They are a lot easier to conceal than an assault rifle also.

Which is why I mentioned a ban on high capacity magazines as well as one on assault weapons.

I like weapons. I've been gun owner, a hunter and competitive shooter in the past but the sorts of weapons and magazines we're talking about here are designed to kill large numbers of people as quickly and efficiently as possible. There is no sane reason for allowing them in civilian hands and little reason to permit their use in law enforcement other than the fact that the bad guys have them too.

John

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by JJIII

Yeah, we're pumping out AK 47s like there is no tomorrow.

From WIKI...

Production outside of the Soviet Union/Russia

Jesus, ever heard of a link?!?!?

What's your point anyway?

John

[piece-itpete]

One could kill 2 people with a pocket knife.

The arms trade is large, and the US plays a big part:



but it's besides the point. All an assault weapons ban here would do is keep us from owning them. Anyone with money (like Mexican cartels) could still find containers of them on the world market.

Pete

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Jesus, ever heard of a link?!?!?

What's your point anyway?

John

Here is the link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47

This paragraph, from that link, explains the point I was making...

"The original AK-47 was one of the first true "assault rifles" to be manufactured, after the original Sturmgewehr 44.[9][10] Even after six decades the model and its variants remain the most widely used and popular assault rifles in the world because of their durability, low production cost, and ease of use. It has been manufactured in many countries and has seen service with armed forces as well as irregular forces worldwide. The AK-47 was the basis for developing many other types of individual and crew-served firearms. More AK-type rifles have been produced than all other assault rifles combined."

Seems Ice has found a link that includes all kinds of other weapons. I suspect that some of those are high dollar systems that skew the results when total money involved is considered the bench mark.

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

One could kill 2 people with a pocket knife.

The arms trade is large, and the US plays a big part:



but it's besides the point. All an assault weapons ban here would do is keep us from owning them. Anyone with money (like Mexican cartels) could still find containers of them on the world market.

Pete

Pete found something too. Just for the sake of clarity, exactly what is meant by "Small arms"? How "big" is it before it is no longer a small arm?

I found this...

http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/weapo...finitions.html

[Boreas]

I'm still not getting the point that you and Pete are trying to make, or even if you're trying to make the same point. Are you saying that there are so many assault weapons out there that it's pointless to try to regulate them? Are you saying that there are so many out there in the hands of the "bad guys" that it's important that the "good guys" have them too?

You guys seem to be forgetting exactly who it is that commits these terrible crimes with assault weapons. It's not Mexican drug lords. It's not al Qaeda fighters. It's not "urban" gang bangers. It's "normal people", just like you.

Frankly, I think that the large numbers of assault weapons in circulation is PRECISELY why they need to be banned.

John