Reaching Out to the Right

[Rajoo]

What makes little or no sense to me is the MAGAts all standing up in unison and applauding for "owning the libs". What does that mean, owning the libs?

That alone wants to make me puke when I see a MAGA hat.

[Oerets]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

What makes little or no sense to me is the MAGAts all standing up in unison and applauding for "owning the libs". What does that mean, owning the libs?

That alone wants to make me puke when I see a MAGA hat.

It is almost like they hate, despise anyone who chooses to disagree with the cult's mantra!

[Noogies]

Originally Posted by Oerets

Evil... applies!

Yes, it seems that most of those associated with Trump are either dumb or evil and frequently enough, both.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

It is likely that the reach to the right here is mostly a stylistic conceit, the real audience is leftists who appreciate all these ducks in a nice row.

Where Maga has weight is abortion.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Boy Don I think you hit it on the head

But I have to comment on it. I'm not a trumper. But my observation is, by dismissing their beliefs out of hand you are indeed taking away something from them. Reading that article I think, ah those perfect Dems If only those non Dems would just (INSERT HERE: come around, see things clearly, stop believing all those lies, stop hating) they'd see things our way and come to the light. But Trump won again with a clear majority.

In all the current chaos one fact stands out, much to my own disbelief - the Democrat party has a lower favorability than the Republican party.

As an example of what I'm saying, the CNN article accompanying that poll focused on (paraphrase): 'but the Dems now have a majority believing they should stop the Right's agenda'.

D'oh. Of course they should. But Trump won the swing voters away from the Left. Are they a bunch of... misguided people too? And isn't the unpopularity issue the main problem (for the Left) with the poll?

The whole business gets down to moral values. There seems in your thought a conflation of two questions: who is popular, and who is right. Popularity gives numbers of votes, which of course is power. So using popularity as a gauge of value is a version of might makes right.

Might-makes-right as a value is indeed rejected out-of-hand. But it is baked into our political system. Structural tests of moral value are lacking in politics. You can totally be a racist Nazi crook, but if you get the votes, you're in. It is the job of the voters to apply good moral judgement and not vote in racist Nazis. The problem is that many people go racist easily, and they go Nazi (authoritarian, might-makes-right) easily, and they go crooked (the conviction that one has no duty to others, that only #1 counts) easily. These three dimensions are the heart of the left's 'out-of-hand' rejections of Trump and Trumpists. And they are rejected so emphatically that if the rejection causes some people to feel hard-done-by, the left has no problem saying 'fuck your feelings.'

Lefitists are wrong in thinking the right is failing an intelligence test (though there is a correlation between intelligence and morality, even so). The right does have plenty of brains, and sees what Trump is. The problem is they are failing a moral test, which makes them actually *like* what Trump is, like it well enough that they don't care enough about the racism, the authoritarianism, and the corruption. Sorry, but I feel that people who vote for racist Nazi crooks, without being racist Nazi crooks themselves, are indeed misguided. So we are left with the right's voters being either misguided, or evil.

People who are misguided or evil don't like hearing that, which contributes to the number who view the left unfavorably. The result, along with other things, gave Trump the last election. So here we are. The left's problem is they turn people off by rejecting them on moral grounds. The right's problem is they turn people off by being racist Nazi crooks. The big question now is, will the racist Nazi crooks get into permanent power by imposing an authoritarian police state, an idea they inherently love?

[RickeyM]

I deplore the term leftist for a number or reasons which I won't go into here. I think the Democratic party needs to reach out to Republican voters by subtly turning them against GOP leadership. Highlighting the hogwash they're being sold while giving a clear alternative of what the Democrats are offering while rebuking the POT leadership's propaganda.
(POT - party of traitors)
The Democratic party leadership, the old, old guard, has played nice and let the Republican party define what the Democratic party is. Many people do have an unfavorable view of the Democratic party not because of what they've done but what the GOP has told people what they've done.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by RickeyM

I deplore the term leftist for a number or reasons which I won't go into here. I think the Democratic party needs to reach out to Republican voters by subtly turning them against GOP leadership. Highlighting the hogwash they're being sold while giving a clear alternative of what the Democrats are offering while rebuking the POT leadership's propaganda.
(POT - party of traitors)
The Democratic party leadership, the old, old guard, has played nice and let the Republican party define what the Democratic party is. Many people do have an unfavorable view of the Democratic party not because of what they've done but what the GOP has told people what they've done.

Oh yes the effective program of propaganda and lies is a biggie. It even intersects with the grievance against the left criticism that I mentioned. Reaction against criticism from the left: 'Hillary called us a basket of deplorables!' The propaganda lie there is that Hillary only said half of them were in the basket of deplorables. Which is roughly accurate.

[piece-itpete]

Heck you guys running Hillary is partly why Trump was elected. While I agreed with her on a lot of foreign policy (including her support for the war in Iraq and helping Syrian rebels against Assad) plenty of her underlings said she treated them like trash. True? Like Trump and Russia, where there's that much smoke there's likely fire.

Democracy is rule by the people right? Supposed to be. Voting is a form of might makes right? Agreed to some degree, but what's the better system? The left already decries the speed bumps in our current system, the things that separate us from a simple Democracy, and almost always advocate for increased government power to 'fix' any perceived ill (and gnash their teeth when the SC says it's unConstititutional, as rare as that is).

I don't take issue with the left's dislike of Trump BTW. Someday he'll be history and people like me will have a say again - you can go back to demonizing fiscal and social conservatives, and all will be right with the world

In the meantime, it would be nice to see the 'loyal opposition' get its act together

Pete

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by RickeyM

I deplore the term leftist for a number or reasons which I won't go into here. I think the Democratic party needs to reach out to Republican voters by subtly turning them against GOP leadership. Highlighting the hogwash they're being sold while giving a clear alternative of what the Democrats are offering while rebuking the POT leadership's propaganda.
(POT - party of traitors)
The Democratic party leadership, the old, old guard, has played nice and let the Republican party define what the Democratic party is. Many people do have an unfavorable view of the Democratic party not because of what they've done but what the GOP has told people what they've done.

You have nailed one aspect of the divide. Hillary was defined by the Republican Party as crooked and she subsequently lost, though with the party by coronating her with super delegates, did not help her cause. A sham primary with Bernie Sanders who was not even a member of the Dem Party?

Then Biden came along, not the most dynamic of people but a decent guy with decades of public service, yet the GOP again branded him and his whole family as crooks mostly because of his son Hunter's shady past.

As for Kamala, she should never have been the nominee. She was "nominated" not because she was winnable, but because of money, the money Biden's campaign had raised with her as the side kick. The GOP even managed to get the black and latinos opposed to her candidacy.

[barbara]

Not that I do not agree with you about Kamala but who else would you have liked to see run?
By the way, I think Kamala is capable but voters are just not ready to vote for a woman, especially one of color.