mosque near ground zero ? - Page 18

piece-itpete · #**171** 08-20-2010, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow

I have absolutely no issue with Obama, Bush or anyone else "bowing" to British, Saudi, Japanese or any other royalty. Diplomatically, it's simply a sign of respect for the cultural traditions of another country. I do draw the line with puking on them, however.

Regarding the Salon source, I'm actually not a reader of their mag, but have read and heard this identical scenario with regard to the genesis of the mosque kerfuffle. This link just happened to paint a pretty clear picture. Are you disputing it factually, and if so, please link to your source.

Actually, I have not once attributed blame to Dubya on this thread, nor do I think anyone else has. If there is anything whatsoever to say critical about Dubya with respect to this mosque (and there probably isn't), he should speak out against the xenophobic BS that underlies this contrived controversy. His State Department deployed this Imam to the Middle East because he was supportive of the fellow's moderate views. Now he is sitting quietly while the right wing xenophobes of his party are throwing his erstwhile emissary under the bus.

'Puking' LMAO!! Can you imagine how horrified the very proper Bush Sr must've been? Poor guy

Jr have been very respectful as ex Pres, which really is zipping his lip.

I withdraw my trollish comment btw. I seriously doubt that is their intention (although I'm with Rob, I'd sure like to know who's paying for it). But people are talking about it.

Pete

finnbow · #**172** 08-20-2010, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

'Puking' LMAO!! Can you imagine how horrified the very proper Bush Sr must've been? Poor guy

Jr have been very respectful as ex Pres, which really is zipping his lip.

I withdraw my trollish comment btw. I seriously doubt that is their intention (although I'm with Rob, I'd sure like to know who's paying for it). But people are talking about it.

Pete

I hesitated (just a little) about the puking comment, but I couldn't help myself. I liked Papa Bush and thought quite highly of his cabinet appointments. He was too smart and dignified to be hijacked by the darker forces within his party. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of his son.

That said, Dubya was still miles ahead of today's GOP in terms of appealing to the better angels of our nature when it came to minorities (e.g., Hispanics, Muslims).

With regard to payment for the mosque, I don't think the Imam is close to raising the requisite money. This whole thing may just fizzle, but the opposition to it may actually help fundraising. Hell, even though I'm agnostic about the prospects of this mosque, I might be willing to throw $20 its way just to spite the xenophobes on the other side.

Fast_Eddie · #**173** 08-20-2010, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell

No one is disputing that. Even the pollsters have found that those who oppose the mosque being built agree that the Cordoba folks have a constitutional right to pursue their faith, and build a mosque anywhere they want. However, there's also the free speech part of the 1st Amendment that suggests that folks have a right to voice opposition, question motives, inquire about funding, etc.

Then there is no issue. No one is trying to keep them from voicing their opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell

Maybe the question needs to be different:

For the sake of discussion, let's suppose that the press discovered that the funding for building the mosque / community center largely was sourced from the Middle East. Saudi Arabia, for instance. Many of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi. Or maybe traced to Hamas? This might suggest that the stated purpose of the mosque as an "outreach center" was a sham, and instead an "in your face" to the people of this country, and the families of the workers, fire fighters and others who died on 9/11. What then?

I don't see anything in your scenario that changes anything. Maybe Hamas, but Saudi Arabia? I thought we were pretty tight with the good people of Saudi Arabia.

The other thing to think about, in my opinion, is the message it sends to the world. Imagine old Bin Laden in a cave somewhere on his dialysis machine. Somehow Sarah Palin has found a way to keep this Mosque from being built. Osama gets his Beta-cam out to video tape a message "See, they won't even let us build a Mosque! They are against Islam!".

What if they build it and everyone just ignores it? What if they mean it as a giant flip off and all anyone does is wave "hi" in return? Who cares? It's a building. Let them build what they like. Good for the economy.

This guy building the Mosque- what ever they call the main guy at a Mosque, can't remember right now. He's getting ready to travel on behalf of the U.S. government talking to people in the Islamic world, as he did under the Bush administration as well. This isn't a nut case guy, he's pretty main line. Asside from a couple of 60 Minutes quotes taken out of context I I haven't seen anything that says otherwise.

And the 60 Minutes quotes- all he said was 9/11 is a reaction to action the U.S. has taken in the past. Does anyone not believe that to be the case? We know Osama is mad at us because of Israel, right? So what's new here? He didn't say what they did was okay, he just explained why they did it. And I think we all already know that.

piece-itpete · #**174** 08-20-2010, 10:51 AM

Yeah, 9-11 was our fault.

Pete

finnbow · #**175** 08-20-2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

And the 60 Minutes quotes- all he said was 9/11 is a reaction to action the U.S. has taken in the past. Does anyone not believe that to be the case? We know Osama is mad at us because of Israel, right? So what's new here? He didn't say what they did was okay, he just explained why they did it. And I think we all already know that.

The Imam's quote is certainly far more accurate than Dubya's at the time. Per Dubya, 9/11 happened because "they hate our freedom." What a disingenuous crock of sh_t. Actually, bin Laden's main beef wasn't Israel, it was the royal family of Saudi Arabia and their relationship with the West. Not defending OBL's actions, of course, just adding a bit of perspective (the first part of fighting an enemy is understanding him.)

finnbow · #**176** 08-20-2010, 11:00 AM

Offered for your consideration and comment:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...T2010081906612

piece-itpete · #**177** 08-20-2010, 11:00 AM

Indeed, it was foriegn troops (us) in the Holy Land. He didn't even mention Palestine or Israel.

These folks do hate our freedom. Infidels are meat for any mans' sword.

Pete

Fast_Eddie · #**178** 08-20-2010, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Yeah, 9-11 was our fault.

Pete

I didn't say that. He didn't either.

Fast_Eddie · #**179** 08-20-2010, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow

The Imam's quote is certainly far more accurate than Dubya's at the time. Per Dubya, 9/11 happened because "they hate our freedom." What a disingenuous crock of sh_t. Actually, bin Laden's main beef wasn't Israel, it was the royal family of Saudi Arabia and their relationship with the West. Not defending OBL's actions, of course, just adding a bit of perspective (the first part of fighting an enemy is understanding him.)

Oh. So 9/11 was our fault.

finnbow · #**180** 08-20-2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Oh. So 9/11 was our fault.

Absolutely not.

But, at times our inexplicable reactions to it are.