mosque near ground zero ?

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by whell

I suspect folks know more about this that you give them credit for.

really? please explain?

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

I'm getting weary of the overt and oblique references to Fox news. I've already posted how both parties benefit financially from media contributions. I don't necessarily buy the "media is biased" crap from either the left of the right, in the various forms that the arguments present themselves. Let's move along.

Were it not for the fact that Murdoch and Co., did conspire to create and fan the flames of this dispute, I would agree with your assessment as to the gratuitous nature of my comment. But since they did, I don't.
http://www.salon.com/news/ground_zer...mosque_origins

Originally Posted by whell

Yup. Would it have been preferable for the US to control both the electoral process and the outcome of the election?

Nope. But it is a bit disingenous to actively lobby for and support the election in Gaza and then throw a hissy-fit when the results don't comport with our wishes.

Originally Posted by whell

We've been kissing but in the Middle East for 50 years. Its become our default foreign policy from one administration to the next. As to whether Saudi Arabia is a true ally, I'd suggest that our policy is that we'd like them to be (as evidenced not only by your gratuitous "smitten schoolboy" comment, but also by President Obama's bowing). In contrast, the Saudi's policy appears to make them our ally when it suits them. You may not agree with the points in the post below, but I suspect they paint the picture pretty well.

I agree wholeheartedly that our relationship with the despots in the Middle East (and the propping up of said despots) is problematic. Come to think of it, so does Osama bin Laden (and Glenn Beck). I guess everybody agrees on this one including the fellow in your link.

My snide comment about Dubya, the smitten schoolboy, was largely intended to reflect the select outrage of the Right. The Right seems outraged that it might be possible that Saudi helps fund this cultural center two blocks away from an existing mosque . Yet, they stayed mute when their standard-bearer, Dubya, flits down the garden path holding hands with King Abdullah.

As I've noted in several previous posts, I'm quite ambivalent about this "mosque." What upsets me is the cynical manipulation of public opinion on an issue that is constitutionally "cut and dry" and the fact that the American people seem to be such mindless sheep to this cynical manipulation.

[whell]

Originally Posted by noonereal

really? please explain?

Anecdotal, of course, but of the folks I've heard speaking about this, average folks who I work with, clients, friends, etc., there's no issue discerning the critical differences between the actions of the Taliban and Al Qaeda, and other Muslims and Muslim groups. Many folks do a pretty decent job overall contrasting an "average" Muslim, who typically just wants to live, work, raise a family, pursue their interests, and do so without being drawn into any national debates about radical Islam, and those who would subvert a religion for their own ends.

[finnbow]

Time for a levity break in this thread:

Let's have somebody tell Sarah Palin that vast oil reserves have been discovered under Ground Zero and then watch her head explode.

Now, back to our regular programming.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

http://www.salon.com/news/ground_zer...mosque_origins

Salon is your best source?? I guess I know why folks think Fox think is the equivalent of the anti - Christ.

Originally Posted by finnbow

Nope. But it is a bit disingenous to actively lobby for and support the election in Gaza and then throw a hissy-fit when the results don't comport with our wishes.

Lest we forget, we are talking about politicians. Blaming and whining are part of their DNA - level programming.

[QUOTE=finnbow;37049
My snide comment about Dubya, the smitten schoolboy, was largely intended to reflect the select outrage of the Right. The Right seems outraged that it might be possible that Saudi helps fund this cultural center two blocks away from an existing mosque . Yet, they stayed mute when their standard-bearer, Dubya, flits down the garden path holding hands with King Abdullah.[/QUOTE]

No, I disagree that there was no outspoken indignation on the right. There's been a level of disgust about this for years. In particular, when Bush visited Saudi Arabia in 2008 and seems to grovel before the King regarding Oil prices. I notices you didn't comment on Obama's bow, though.

The "everything is Dubya's and the Republican's fault" theme that permeates these threads earns the "My Cousin Vinny" award as well.

[piece-itpete]

Diplomacy is a lot different than the building in question.

Pete

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by whell

Anecdotal, of course, but of the folks I've heard speaking about this, average folks who I work with, clients, friends, etc., there's no issue discerning the critical differences between the actions of the Taliban and Al Qaeda, and other Muslims and Muslim groups. Many folks do a pretty decent job overall contrasting an "average" Muslim, who typically just wants to live, work, raise a family, pursue their interests, and do so without being drawn into any national debates about radical Islam, and those who would subvert a religion for their own ends.

so you are saying that peoples primal instinct (to identify a trait and be weary of it) is compelling a response in spite of the intellectual ability to understand. Good we agree.

But we need to get by this.

and living among a different people is the only way (in this case) this is accomplish if one cannot base decisions on reason.

[piece-itpete]

Musselmen have a habit of building mosques on conquered sites.

Just thought I'd stir it up a little

Pete

[finnbow]

I have absolutely no issue with Obama, Bush or anyone else "bowing" to British, Saudi, Japanese or any other royalty. Diplomatically, it's simply a sign of respect for the cultural traditions of another country. I do draw the line with puking on them, however.

Regarding the Salon source, I'm actually not a reader of their mag, but have read and heard this identical scenario with regard to the genesis of the mosque kerfuffle. This link just happened to paint a pretty clear picture. Are you disputing it factually, and if so, please link to your source.

Actually, I have not once attributed blame to Dubya on this thread, nor do I think anyone else has. If there is anything whatsoever to say critical about Dubya with respect to this mosque (and there probably isn't), he should speak out against the xenophobic BS that underlies this contrived controversy. His State Department deployed this Imam to the Middle East because he was supportive of the fellow's moderate views. Now he is sitting quietly while the right wing xenophobes of his party are throwing his erstwhile emissary under the bus.

[d-ray657]

Yeah, Rove is politically savvy enough to know what is an effective wedge issue and what isn't. He sees the opportunity for a focus on depriving a group of religious liberty to backfire. I'll give him credit for enlightened self interest.

You may grow weary of references to the bias of Fox, but I grow weary of Fox's advertisement of being "fair and balanced" when they are nothing but a tool for the GOP. That's like saying Goldman Sachs is neutral about regulation of the financial industry because they hedge their bets by making down-payments to both parties.

Regards,

D-Ray