18 and Dead.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Zeke

As usual, I'm going to wait and see whether you can actually think.

Thus far, I've been terribly disappointed.

Google some more...

.

Actually it's your obligation to provide a link or links to your sources.

If you can't cut the mustard you need to get out of the game.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by bobabode

Not that I have a dog in this fight... this Marine's Marine seems to fit the bill. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_M._Gray,_Jr.

Never heard of him. I do like his choice of utilities for his official General's photo though. Although I suspect, like other commandants...he didn't really see himself a just one of the grunts.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

.

Actually it's your obligation to provide a link or links to your sources.

If you can't cut the mustard you need to get out of the game.

Is it now dogma that posters must provide links to people who are elemental figures in the topic discussed? Where lack of knowledge of said individuals defines an inability to discuss the topic?

Nobody has to link to Einstein when discussing physics. If they demand a link for such, they shouldn't be in the discussion.

You're just, again, out of your element.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Never heard of him.

Hence my point.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Never heard of him. I do like his choice of utilities for his official General's photo though. Although I suspect, like other commandants...he didn't really see himself a just one of the grunts.

Coming up through the ranks of enlisted personnel to commandant of the corp sure sounds like a grunt made good in spades. Sorry you didn't take the time to read the link. Y'all have fun here, I'm gone.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Never heard of him. I do like his choice of utilities for his official General's photo though. Although I suspect, like other commandants...he didn't really see himself a just one of the grunts.

I like the fact that he was a mustang too, but again I never heard of him.

In my entire time in the Air Force I never really saw a General.

Once we had to pass in review in front of a two star and do an "eyes right" and salute in the direction of the review stand he was supposedly in but I didn't have a clue which one was the General.

Another time we in Vietnam we had to all dress out in our 1505's and stand at Parade Rest on the fucking hot as Hell tarmac until some fucking generals plane came in. Then we had to stand at attention while he rode in a jeep past us to the base commanders office where he would have coffee with him and then fly out the next morning. The way it worked the Generals would fly in on the last of the month and then fly out the next morning on the first so that they could get 2 months of extra pay for being in a combat zone.

Needless to say I didn't have a whole lot of respect for the higher ranking officers. The military is run by enlisted NCO's. Anything that gets done generally get's done in spite of the officers, not because of them. Generals don't have a clue what's going on at the ground level. Not a fucking clue.

The highest ranking officers I ever had any real interaction with were Captains and Majors.

And that was because I was Medic and they were nurses and doctors. They actually did stuff. Most of the other officers of that rank were about as useful as tits on a bore hog. As far as I can tell the purpose of most officers is to come up with stupid assed shit that the enlisted people have to figure out how to work around so that they can get their jobs done.

From what my son, who is a Master Sergeant, has told me, it's pretty much the same way in today's Army.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by bobabode

Coming up through the ranks of enlisted personnel to commandant of the corp sure sounds like a grunt made good in spades. Sorry you didn't take the time to read the link. Y'all have fun here, I'm gone.

I read the link Bob.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by bobabode

Coming up through the ranks of enlisted personnel to commandant of the corp sure sounds like a grunt made good in spades.

Precisely.

This guy, and the guy after him but it started with Gray, are the folks who came up with a new leadership dynamic that eradicated the post Vietnam, linear and non-thinking Marine/military dynamic.

Every Marine a rifleman? Yes, but they created The Crucible (a final test in Basic Training designed where only cooperative analysis and not cro-magnon dithering leads to success) as well as the concept of the Strategic Corporal. Now, with their recruits hitting forty-five? It is de rigueur across The Corp and it's leadership at every level.

At this point, the thinking/questioning qualities Ike and Joad often demean are precisely those sought by our Armed Forces and its leadership. That's why we perform so well in diverse situations, are leaders in coalitions, and otherwise maintain an adaptive flexibility shown by no other entity. It's also why many folks with military experience under the age of forty-five are so prized in the professional work force: you get the final third of someone's prime and they merely desire stability and respect while being accountable.

Veterans above forty-five, prior to the leadership revolution that eventually affected every branch? They can be different. More inflexible. Brittle. Entitled. Boastful. Joadian(tm) or Ike Like(tm). Maybe that's because we've managed to not win everything they fought in and they consider it John Q.'s fault?

But there is an age related factor. Things needed to change and a Vietnam era platoon leader in a (much later) temporary appointed political position was in the right place to name a Marine Commandant and reform everything twenty years after Tet. Al Gray is a great leader, whose appointment was controversial, and the guy who appointed him (Jim Webb) eventually became a Senator.

I think Jim Webb is considering a run for President in 2016.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Zeke

At this point, the thinking/questioning qualities Ike and Joad often demean are precisely those sought by our Armed Forces and its leadership.

Which shows us how little you know about the Military.

The ability to act Independently, to think on your own and to improvise are the very cornerstones of the selection and training process of Army special Forces. The instructors actually laugh at you during selection if you have too much military bearing and do things like square your coners. Green Berets pride themselves on having unconventional appearances. Most of the time my son doesn't wear a conventional uniform. Green Berets relie on self discipline. There's very little in the way of external discipline imposed upon them.

It's the few obnoxious jerk offs like you that need to have the hammer brought down on them. And your kind are only found in the conventional Army. You wouldn't last three days in Special Forces selection before you washed out. And that's counting the first two that are mostly in-processing.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Which shows us how little you know about the Military.

The ability to act Independently, to think on your own and to improvise are the very cornerstones of the selection and training process of Army special Forces. The instructors actually laugh at you during selection if you have too much military bearing and do things like square your coners. Green Berets pride themselves on having unconventional appearances. Most of the time my son doesn't wear a conventional uniform. Green Berets relie on self discipline. There's very little in the way of external discipline imposed upon them.

It's the few obnoxious jerk offs like you that need to have the hammer brought down on them. And your kind are only found in the conventional Army. You wouldn't last three days in Special Forces selection before you washed out. And that's counting the first two that are mostly in-processing.

Did you just use your son, again, in failing to make a point?

"Pride themselves?" I thought you reported previously such individuals exhibited little, if any, ego. Is that, too, going to go the way of your bolloxed quote of 99/100 bulls eyes?

Besides, claiming anything Special Forces -- beyond your ongoing desperate attempt to make a living off your son -- maintains bearing on how the military is trained or what is accepted is akin to saying you know the United States due to the behavior of an isolationist camp in Northern Idaho.

You continue to appear foolish.

If you're going to "drop the hammer" on me, perhaps you should use a blunt instrument other than your intellect. At the moment, you're failing miserably.