Why are Americans are so Dumb?

[FordGT90]

Originally Posted by Not Insane

If electric cars actually catch on (when, not if), Nuclear will come back with a vengeance. It has to.

It can't. There simply isn't enough battery production to come remotely close to that and it's not clear that it is even possible.

Originally Posted by Not Insane

His take on solar is that it is more expensive than any other commercial form of power generation, but has two advantages for homeowner rooftop solar:

It is, studies have been done and home installations of solar are ~3 times more expensive than grid installations...yet people still do it when grid operators won't. It's hilarious sad.

Originally Posted by Not Insane

BTW, here is a GREAT video called "how fear of nuclear ends".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI6IzPCmIW8

Indeed, thanks for that.

Diablo Canyon is the last operating nuclear power plant on the west coast...and it's scheduled for permanent shutdown soon.

[RickeyM]

Originally Posted by Oerets

There is little to be accomplished trying to change or open a mind that still thinks nuclear power is an answer.

A poison that keep on giving for many thousands of years in the future. I for one do not trust humans to contain the waste created so far.

So keep on thinking like there will be another planet to move on to when this one is done, because of our stupidity. The days of moving to the next valley once the old one is used up are long gone.

He seems to have a one track mind on the subject and is convinced it's thee answer to all our energy needs. Re: my comment about putting one's eggs all in one basket.
The nuke guys seem to miss that the other energy sources will be combined to take the advantages of each. I look at the "obstacles" renewable energy has but technological advances only stand still when they're not explored.

[Chicks]

Amusing to read that "no one wants" solar panels in their "back yard". We have entire housing developments here where every house has the panels on their roofs. They sell at a premium. We get 300+ days/year of sunshine.

I visit a large city park on my daily walk. Very long rows of solar panels provide shade for cars in the parking lots, besides providing lots of energy. The local Kaiser office just installed them in their parking lot, too, and the local non-profit, ratepayer-owned electric utility has many hundreds of acres of solar panels.

Laughable what these clowns believe in their alternative reality.

[FordGT90]

Originally Posted by RickeyM

He seems to have a one track mind on the subject and is convinced it's thee answer to all our energy needs. Re: my comment about putting one's eggs all in one basket.
The nuke guys seem to miss that the other energy sources will be combined to take the advantages of each. I look at the "obstacles" renewable energy has but technological advances only stand still when they're not explored.

Gen 3+ reactors can actually ramp up and down with normal electricity demands; they cannot, however, ramp up and down to respond to the duck bill curve induced by solar (electric consumption does not track exactly with sunlight) and wind (e.g. "the calm before the storm"). Nuclear by itself, therefore, is ideal: a 99.999% carbon free grid without any disruptions it can't handle. It's better for the economy, the people, and the environment than renewables can ever come remotely close to.

Originally Posted by Chicks

Amusing to read that "no one wants" solar panels in their "back yard". We have entire housing developments here where every house has the panels on their roofs. They sell at a premium. We get 300+ days/year of sunshine.

And burning natural gas all the time the sun ain't shining...you know...like...night? That electricity is coming from somewhere.

Originally Posted by Chicks

Very long rows of solar panels provide shade for cars in the parking lots, besides providing lots of energy. The local Kaiser office just installed them in their parking lot, too, and the local non-profit, ratepayer-owned electric utility has many hundreds of acres of solar panels.

Do realize that solar panels have very low albedo. Low albedo = higher surface temperature = higher surface temperature leads to warmer air temperature = warmer average air temperature = localized warming = localized warming over time warming air downwind = doing this all over the world = global warming

Originally Posted by Chicks

Laughable what these clowns believe in their alternative reality.

I know I'm living in reality: a place where physics, not opinion, are the natural order. Where does that put you?

[Chicks]

Originally Posted by FordGT90

Do realize that solar panels have very low albedo. Low albedo = higher surface temperature = higher surface temperature leads to warmer air temperature = warmer average air temperature = localized warming = localized warming over time warming air downwind = doing this all over the world = global warming

Sorry, but bullshit. https://www.treehugger.com/ask-pablo...change-4857452

I know I'm living in reality: a place where physics, not opinion, are the natural order.

See above.

[Oerets]

You know if cheap and easy were the answers to all situations. Only fast food restaurants would get business. Ordering from the low dollar menu, never getting what you really wanted or needed.

Settling for the cheapest possible way to stuff yourself. With all of the consequences....

[FordGT90]

Originally Posted by Chicks

Sorry, but bullshit. https://www.treehugger.com/ask-pablo...change-4857452

If you read your own source you'd notice my description of things is correct if the panels are installed against a surface with higher albedo than the panels.

The article is incorrect in assuming solar is higher efficiency than conventional power plants, because it isn't:
https://www.energyandcapital.com/art...-really-/76858

According to the EIA, natural gas has the highest efficiency at around 43% as of 2015. Coal, oil, and nuclear plants all fall around 33%, with nuclear keeping a slight lead.

In its latest Annual Energy Review, the EIA estimated that the conversion efficiencies of renewables were even lower than that. The report placed wind at 26%, thermal solar at 21%, and PV solar at 12%.

Which totally makes sense, especially for nuclear, because the heat source is nestled deep inside of layers of insulation and they attempt to extract all of that thermal energy from that source venting as little as possible to the environment.

[FordGT90]

Originally Posted by Oerets

You know if cheap and easy were the answers to all situations. Only fast food restaurants would get business. Ordering from the low dollar menu, never getting what you really wanted or needed.

Settling for the cheapest possible way to stuff yourself. With all of the consequences....

Indeed. Nuclear is slow and insanely expensive but it has the absolute highest capacity factor (>93%) and the longest lifespan with every incentive to make that lifespan as long as possible because of the extreme start up costs. The very nature of the beast prohibits it from being afflicted by the disposal culture we have today.

Nuclear requires incredible commitment but the payoff is equally enormous.

[Chicks]

Originally Posted by FordGT90

If you read your own source you'd notice my description of things is correct if the panels are installed against a surface with higher albedo than the panels.

Oh for crying out loud! You read it, dumbass. Every watt of energy produced using solar panels REPLACES, watt-for-watt, energy produced by dirty, CO2-producing, global warming-causing fuels. A HUGE win for every human on the planet, for many, many years to come, not just in climate, but in the massive healthcare savings thanks to the cleaner air. Think!

[FordGT90]

Originally Posted by Chicks

Oh for crying out loud! You read it, dumbass. Every watt of energy produced using solar panels REPLACES, watt-for-watt, energy produced by dirty, CO2-producing, global warming-causing fuels. A HUGE win for every human on the planet, for many, many years to come, not just in climate, but in the massive healthcare savings thanks to the cleaner air. Think!

Except that in practice, we're shutting down nuclear reactors replacing them with mostly natural gas and wind, solar is a distant last. CO2 goes up "watt-for-watt" because natural gas turbines quickly counter the inherit instability of renewables while also being more efficient than renewables.