'Large Group Of Armed Militia Members Take Over Federal Building'

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by sheltiedave

Put jersey barriers and a ring of large X tacs all around the perimeter, ten foot tall band concertina barbed wire, and post a battalion outside the perimeter. Shut off all utilities, and lay down a good water barrage of morpholine on the snow outside. They try to drink snowmelt, they get propulsive diarrhea for a couple days.

With no food, no water, and no heat after four or five days, most of them will be ready to surrender. Charge every one of their asses with federal felony trespass, so their can no longer possess firearms, and let them rot for a year in jail.

I would like to do more, but we are civilized. Teach them a little lesson that freedom does not mean free to use any government resource you want without paying a reasonable established rate, that 98% of all American ranchers have no problem doing.

Agreed except for giving them the runs. Better to constipate them.
Turn the heat, power and water off, jam their cell phones and most importantly keep the media vultures out.

[Oerets]

I fail to see this groups argument at all. Federal land belongs to everyone and future generations. Not just to the few who have historically used them for profit. Now they have the sense of entitlement.
If an owner of property with a black walnut tree catches a neighbor chopping it down and asks WTF. Gets the response "I'll make the money since your not going to" local PD would arrest them and courts would award damages. Period!
Much the same should be then applied to those who steal from the rest of us thru the illegal use of federal lands.



Barney

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Oerets

I fail to see this groups argument at all. Federal land belongs to everyone and future generations. Not just to the few who have historically used them for profit. Now they have the sense of entitlement.
If an owner of property with a black walnut tree catches a neighbor chopping it down and asks WTF. Gets the response "I'll make the money since your not going to" local PD would arrest them and courts would award damages. Period!
Much the same should be then applied to those who steal from the rest of us thru the illegal use of federal lands.



Barney

Even when you actually do possess a half-assed legal claim, occupiers eventually lose against the Feds. They key -- from the Fed perspective -- is to think the long game.

Native Occupation of Alcatraz in 1969-1970.

[Mr. Lin]

Originally Posted by sheltiedave

Put jersey barriers and a ring of large X tacs all around the perimeter, ten foot tall band concertina barbed wire, and post a battalion outside the perimeter. Shut off all utilities, and lay down a good water barrage of morpholine on the snow outside. They try to drink snowmelt, they get propulsive diarrhea for a couple days.

With no food, no water, and no heat after four or five days, most of them will be ready to surrender. Charge every one of their asses with federal felony trespass, so their can no longer possess firearms, and let them rot for a year in jail.

I would like to do more, but we are civilized. Teach them a little lesson that freedom does not mean free to use any government resource you want without paying a reasonable established rate, that 98% of all American ranchers have no problem doing.

I too would like to see it go down this way in the end.

[mpholland]

The situation in Oregon has little to do with grazing on public land. The Two locals who went to jail were tried for arson as they did a backburn to control fires that were started by lightning to try to save their own private grazing land. It worked, and they got the fires controlled and out, but in the process the burn that they started went onto BLM land and burned up some federal land. This, along with prescribed burns is done quite often in the eastern part of the state. Problem is is that there was a burn ban in effect, so they got charged by the feds with arson. The judge was reasonable in the case and sentenced the locals to a year for one, and three months for the other. The BLM appealed the sentence and won as the judge had no legal right to override the 5 year mandatory federal minimum for arson.

That is what the local protest was over. Bundy and company were at the protest, but did this on their own after the protest.

[Tom Joad]

If a group of black people, or Muslims had tried something like this would any of them still be alive?

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

If a group of black people, or Muslims had tried something like this would any of them still be alive?

A bunch of Natives did such things a lot during the 1970s and survived, I don't think this is about any form of subdivided humanity beyond those breaking the law versus those who are not: it wouldn't matter if these folks were plaid.

What is different about this and all of the folks you incessantly whine about being (appropriately) "gunned down" by police? There is no immediate danger to the public or an officer caused by their actions.

Until/unless something uber dramatic is to eminently occur via occupier action(s), the Good Guys can afford to starve them out.

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by mpholland

The situation in Oregon has little to do with grazing on public land. The Two locals who went to jail were tried for arson as they did a backburn to control fires that were started by lightning to try to save their own private grazing land. It worked, and they got the fires controlled and out, but in the process the burn that they started went onto BLM land and burned up some federal land. This, along with prescribed burns is done quite often in the eastern part of the state. Problem is is that there was a burn ban in effect, so they got charged by the feds with arson. The judge was reasonable in the case and sentenced the locals to a year for one, and three months for the other. The BLM appealed the sentence and won as the judge had no legal right to override the 5 year mandatory federal minimum for arson.

That is what the local protest was over. Bundy and company were at the protest, but did this on their own after the protest.

Ayup. That's my understanding as well. From what I've read, as convicted arsonists, they've lost their lease rights to boot. They recently paid $400k for their part of the $1m in firefighting costs from the fire. I expect that once the finish their time, the Hammonds will be able lease BLM grazing land again.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by mpholland

The Two locals who went to jail were tried for arson as they did a backburn to control fires that were started by lightning to try to save their own private grazing land. It worked, and they got the fires controlled and out, but in the process the burn that they started went onto BLM land and burned up some federal land.

That's not all they did, Marc. They also poached and butchered several deer on a BLM game preserve and then started a brush fire to destroy the evidence. One of the kids who was instructed to set the fire got himself trapped by the blaze and damn near died. He saved himself by jumping in a creek and waiting for the fire to burn past him.

And, by the way, the backfires they lit were illegal - whether they spread to BLM land or not. For one thing, there was a burn ban in place while the forestry service fought a series of fires in the area but the Hammonds lit a couple of backfires anyway. And then they didn't bother to notify anyone that they had. This could have resulted in the deaths of firefighters who could have found themselves trapped between the wildfires they were fighting and the Hammonds' backfires.

As far as I'm concerned, the assholes got off too lightly.

[Zeke]

Oh, I concur. This is righteously shitty all around but I don't think armed assault is a well thought out approach to ending the standoff.