I think they're lying. And I think they know it.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Ah yes, the Continental Congress was not representative of the people, and the basis of our government?

The Continental Congress didn't represent the people. It represented the rebellion which was embraced by many of the colonists but far from all of them. It was the precursor of our eventual government but not our government.

My mistake in claiming Congress authorized printing the 1st Bible was a misread on my part, they only authorized their official approval of the Bible to be published.

Pete

The Continental Congress didn't authorize anything. That implies they caused something to exist. They merely endorsed an already existing bible. Also, they specifically refused either to publish the bible under their authority or appoint Aitken as the official publisher of sacred texts, both of these things being requested in Aitken's petition. The Aitken Bible was in no way an official text of any US or prior government.

John

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Um, who cares?

They also owned slaves and didn't allow women to vote. Ya'll need to move on.

Do we? Oh,okay.

John

[merrylander]

Out of curiousity I looked in the index of Madison's Notes. The sole mention of religion was about the wording for the final text of Article VI ". . . ; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any public office or public trust under the United States."

If the preamble does not indicate the formation of a government (ergo also a nation, else why have a government) I don't know what does.

[piece-itpete]

Iirc the religious test was kinda hardfought over the whole period. Folks wanted a requirement to be Christian (and some State constitutions had this)(and of course - we were a Christian nation ) but the wiser Feds knew it was a door for a Federally sponsored denomination, which understandably was their biggest fear. They really did want freedom of religion, because they understood it went hand-in-hand with freedom of speech.

Pete

[merrylander]

According to Madison's Notes it had little discussion, to wit;

"Mr. Pinkney moved to add to the article ( the actual wording I quoted earlier)

Mr Sherman thought it unnecessary, the prevailing liberality being a security against such tests.

Mr. Gouvernor Morris & General Pinkney approved the motion"

only North Carolina and one member from MD against, there were two Pinkneys present, father and son I believe.

Not exactly an overwhelming amount of discussion I would say.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Iirc the religious test was kinda hardfought over the whole period. Folks wanted a requirement to be Christian (and some State constitutions had this)(and of course - we were a Christian nation ) but the wiser Feds knew it was a door for a Federally sponsored denomination, which understandably was their biggest fear. They really did want freedom of religion, because they understood it went hand-in-hand with freedom of speech.

Pete

Yes, Adams and others feared Federal influence over religion. Others, including Jefferson, feared the opposite, that we'd end up with a theocracy. The only consensus was that separation between church and state was essential to the survival of the nation, for whichever reason.

By the way, you do know that the words, "so help me God" aren't in the actual Presidential Oath of Office as it appears in the Constitution. You know that, right?

Article II, Section 1, Clause 8

John

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by merrylander

"Mr. Pinkney moved to add to the article ( the actual wording I quoted earlier)

Mr Sherman thought it unnecessary, the prevailing liberality being a security against such tests.

It's a damned good thing we didn't end up relying on "the prevailing liberality" to protect us from religious interference in government.

John

[merrylander]

It was added during the Eisenhower administration and was based on the story that Washington said it when he was inaugurated. There is certainly nothing wrong with a President asking for divine assistance, some of them needed all the help they can get.

That said for the Chief Justice to ask for it violates the Constitution.

[piece-itpete]

Yep, that non Christian gentleman (who was perhaps the most un-emotional person I've ever read about, almost cold-seeming) added 'So help me God!' and kissed the Bible.

Here's betting his contemporaries were surprised.

Hey, why do we swear on the Bible? (elbow in side)

Pete

[piece-itpete]

Btw, I believe it was more his fervor for the Constitution.

Pete