Prediction: Trump Out/Ryan In

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

I've never been to India.

But I've been to Camden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BXCaT2JluI

In fact I am going there for three weeks on Monday for mostly business and some family visits on weekends.
I am flying through Newark.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

In fact I am going there for three weeks on Monday for mostly business and some family visits on weekends.
I am flying through Newark.

Newark is across the Hudson from Manhattan. Camden is across the Delaware from Philadelphia, about 100 miles away. Newark has had something of a renaissance since the riots in the '60s. Camden, on the other hand has been a basket case for 30 years. Time was it was a vital city. Campbell Soups RCA, Singer and a lot of famous names had their headquarters or major factories there.

[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by sheltiedave

ZJ, once again, you get the progression, and therefore, the root cause, wrong.

If the banks, which are almost all owned and/or operated by wealthy Republicans, were not deregulated, they would have never been able to make nonconventional unsecured loans.

If the banks' mortgage departments not directed to make unsecured loans by management, there would have been little adverse loan risk exposure.

If the federal laws had not been subverted, allowing banks to bundle and sell these unsecured loans as a derivative commodity in the marketplace, the general public would never had been exposed to enormous high risk bad debt.

All three of these planks had to exist in all their unique glory to allow the pyramid scheme to falter.

The home buyers who bought on 100% credit did what any sane person with no skin in the game would do - they walked when the bear futures commodity market put them underwater. Those who could and needed to hold on to the property, due to equity in their house, got a second job, put off retirement, or put off selling the house until market forces restored them to a position above water.

Again, the housing bubble recession was brought on by bank greed, bank deregulation, and bad business decisions by banks and lenders.

I can't say that I disagree with that. It is the part where the borrowers were victims that bothers me. I think for the most part they knew what they were doing and took advantage of the situation. Either buying hoping to flip it , or knowing that they could at worst live in it for a few months if things didn't work out.

So, putting 100% on the backs of the banks is a liberal message that I just don't buy in to.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

I can't say that I disagree with that. It is the part where the borrowers were victims that bothers me. I think for the most part they knew what they were doing and took advantage of the situation. Either buying hoping to flip it , or knowing that they could at worst live in it for a few months if things didn't work out.

So, putting 100% on the backs of the banks is a liberal message that I just don't buy in to.

ZJ the real estate agents were telling them that the market was rising rapidly so yes flip and maybe make enough for a down payment on a regular mortgage. Otherwise with frozen wages they felt they would never get a home of their own. Landlords then had them by the short and curlies.

[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by merrylander

ZJ the real estate agents were telling them that the market was rising rapidly so yes flip and maybe make enough for a down payment on a regular mortgage. Otherwise with frozen wages they felt they would never get a home of their own. Landlords then had them by the short and curlies.

I don't disagree with that either. But, what everybody seems to forget is that the government was complicit in this through several administrations.

And, I don't disagree with the sentiment that everybody should own their own home. Part of the whole debacle was government manipulation.

Of course, all parties get amnesia when it creates a bubble and crashes.

The skyrocketing prices of college tuition following government sanctioned loans is somewhat similar.

[sheltiedave]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

I can't say that I disagree with that. It is the part where the borrowers were victims that bothers me. I think for the most part they knew what they were doing and took advantage of the situation. Either buying hoping to flip it , or knowing that they could at worst live in it for a few months if things didn't work out.

So, putting 100% on the backs of the banks is a liberal message that I just don't buy in to.

Where oh where did I say that borrowers were victims? The borrowers were dupes, blinded by a rising bubble and dreams that owning a house would change their nebulous financial status, foisted by bank loan officers, who knew to the last nickel that their loans were toxic. As long as they could move the bad debt, however, they did not care. And trust me, any loan officer who had a finance degree, or five years of banking experience, knew these were bad debts the moment the bubble burst.

My wife worked at a bank for seven years, and we were amazed that banks would eagerly make loans with zero down. WTF was this, a liberal plot to make banks crash? Had every conservative Republican banker fled the industry following deregulation? When did Barbara Boxer and the Clintons join the banking ranks?

[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by sheltiedave

Where oh where did I say that borrowers were victims? The borrowers were dupes, blinded by a rising bubble and dreams that owning a house would change their nebulous financial status, foisted by bank loan officers, who knew to the last nickel that their loans were toxic. As long as they could move the bad debt, however, they did not care. And trust me, any loan officer who had a finance degree, or five years of banking experience, knew these were bad debts the moment the bubble burst.

My wife worked at a bank for seven years, and we were amazed that banks would eagerly make loans with zero down. WTF was this, a liberal plot to make banks crash? Had every conservative Republican banker fled the industry following deregulation? When did Barbara Boxer and the Clintons join the banking ranks?

Never said you said, just that it is a narrative of the left.

Here is something you can read if you wish that explains the evolution.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-c...s-guide-2009-6

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

I don't disagree with that either. But, what everybody seems to forget is that the government was complicit in this through several administrations.

And, I don't disagree with the sentiment that everybody should own their own home. Part of the whole debacle was government manipulation.

Of course, all parties get amnesia when it creates a bubble and crashes.

The skyrocketing prices of college tuition following government sanctioned loans is somewhat similar.

Well as Gordon Gekko said "Greed is good".

[MrPots]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

I can't say that I disagree with that. It is the part where the borrowers were victims that bothers me. I think for the most part they knew what they were doing and took advantage of the situation. Either buying hoping to flip it , or knowing that they could at worst live in it for a few months if things didn't work out.

So, putting 100% on the backs of the banks is a liberal message that I just don't buy in to.

You really think those borrowers thought they were pulling one over on the banks? LOL.....

Those banks were telling the borrowers they could do this and since they were the experts the borrowers believed them. Yes, they were the victims.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by MrPots

You really think those borrowers thought they were pulling one over on the banks? LOL.....

Those banks were telling the borrowers they could do this and since they were the experts the borrowers believed them. Yes, they were the victims.

Right on. When we bought our current house in 2002, upon closing we were automatically given a line of credit (checkbook and all) equal to the down payment (equity) we made. I still remember asking the bank representative "are you guys nuts"? They said they were doing this on the future value of the house!