Putin Invades the Ukraine

[Pio1980]

https://news.yahoo.com/putin-russia-...170317898.html

Speaking to Sky News in an article published Saturday, Maj. Gen. Kyrylo Budanov said he was “optimistic” about Russia’s defeat, suggesting that this would lead...

[finnbow]

Russia needs proper humiliation. It needs a humble recognition of its diminished status, an acceptance of guilt, and a slow, painstaking effort to rebuild the trust of those it has wronged. Russia did not learn this lesson in the 1990s. It must learn it now...

The real source of Russia’s humiliation has always been Russia itself: its arrogant, autocratic rulers and the chauvinistic populace that slavishly worship them. Russia’s defeat in this unjust, criminal war against Ukraine may help shift the domestic narrative in Russia towards accepting the country for what it really is, rather than what it has vainly pretended to be. It is only then that Russia can, finally, be at peace with itself and with its neighbours.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...ted-in-ukraine

[donquixote99]

But historically, a 'proper humiliation' has generally required a much more thorough defeat than is likely in this case. See Germany, arguably 'improperly humiliated' at end of WWI, but properly at end of WWII.

[Dondilion]

Here is the rub...Humiliation in terms of normal kinetic warfare. It's a gamble.

In the meantime the rush to humiliate has exposed the fragility of the world economic system. It looks like there is likely to be only one winner...China.

Now watch China play lockdown.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Here is the rub...Humiliation in terms of normal kinetic warfare. It's a gamble.

In the meantime the rush to humiliate has exposed the fragility of the world economic system. It looks like there is likely to be only one winner...China.

Now watch China play lockdown.

In the nuclear age, engaging in warfare with a nuclear power is always a gamble. The impacts of this war on the world's economic system has nothing to do with a "rush to humiliate" Russia. If Russia doesn't want to be humiliated, Putin can quit now and tell his people that he somehow won. They'll likely believe it (as might you FWIW).

Here's another take on the matter:

The war in Ukraine has exposed the fundamental failure of Western audiences to appreciate the true nature of modern Russia. Many international observers still assume Russia is a rational actor and believe policies of appeasement can bring the conflict in Ukraine to an end. Nothing could be further from the truth.

In reality, neither bleeding heart liberals nor diehard realists truly understand Vladimir Putin. They fail to recognize that he is an authoritarian kleptocrat who does not care about Russia’s national interest and is focused instead on his power and wealth. He hides this self-interest behind a façade of revisionist Russian nationalism that helps secure popular support for his criminal rule.

As I have argued in my book, “Russia’s Crony Capitalism: The Path from Market Economy to Kleptocracy,” Putin’s personal politics combine authoritarianism and kleptocracy. He needs war not to make Russia great again but to increase his popularity and justify his repressive domestic policies. Putin also fears the rise of a democratic Ukraine and views the country’s Euro-Atlantic integration as an existential threat to his own authoritarian regime.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blog...in-putinology/

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

But historically, a 'proper humiliation' has generally required a much more thorough defeat than is likely in this case. See Germany, arguably 'improperly humiliated' at end of WWI, but properly at end of WWII.

It was the Versailles Treaty that humiliated them, not the thoroughness of their defeat.

[Pio1980]

China humiliates Putin as ex-official says 'only matter of time' before Russian defeat

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...tin-latest/amp

[Pio1980]

Putin will be in a sanatorium and out of power by 2023, a former British intelligence chief predicts

https://www.businessinsider.com/puti...6-chief-2022-5

[Dondilion]

The Blame Game begins as the situation in the Donbas becomes clear.

https://nytimes.com/2022/06/08/us/po...elligence.html

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

The Blame Game begins as the situation in the Donbas becomes clear.

https://nytimes.com/2022/06/08/us/po...elligence.html

The article was not about blame-shifting. It simply says we have historically had better intelligence on Russia than Ukraine. Not exactly a news flash. As for the situation in Donbas being clear (to you), maybe you should share your infinite wisdom with US intelligence, comrade.