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07-10-2023, 06:31 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 8,310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow
And why could Russia not accomplish that in Ukraine?
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Oh, I dunno, maybe because the Iraqi people were subjected to governance by a murderous dictator (and pal of Donald Rumsfeld), and the Ukrainian people were finally enjoying living in a democracy worth fighting for and out from under the control of the fucking Russians.
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07-10-2023, 06:44 AM
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Ready
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 19,926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondilion
US went into Iraq with a massive force and immediately took out Iraq's infrastructure and strategic centers.
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Only to demonstrate complete incompetence to set up an occupation that could pacify the country
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07-10-2023, 06:59 AM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 26,552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Bana
Oh, I dunno, maybe because the Iraqi people were subjected to governance by a murderous dictator (and pal of Donald Rumsfeld), and the Ukrainian people were finally enjoying living in a democracy worth fighting for and out from under the control of the fucking Russians.
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I'd attribute it more to the incompetence of the Russian Air Force. They're fully capable of raining terror down on innocent civilians when unopposed (such as Syria), but aren't capable of overwhelming and defeating an opponent's air defense capabilities.
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As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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07-10-2023, 07:29 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 8,310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow
I'd attribute it more to the incompetence of the Russian Air Force. They're fully capable of raining terror down on innocent civilians when unopposed (such as Syria), but aren't capable of overwhelming and defeating an opponent's air defense capabilities.
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OK...I just want to mention that the fucking Russians also got their asses whipped in Afghanistan (Russia's Vietnam, eh?), with help from Charlie Wilson.
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07-10-2023, 07:44 AM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 26,552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Bana
OK...I just want to mention that the fucking Russians also got their asses whipped in Afghanistan (Russia's Vietnam, eh?), with help from Charlie Wilson.
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Actually, I was going to mention that too. Their air force was effective there until they were driven out by by feckin' man-portable air-defense systems (i.e., Stingers). ~450 Russian aircraft were lost there.
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As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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07-10-2023, 07:59 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 7,532
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Not to put too fine a point on it but Ukraine need only push Putin's army back across the border. They don't necessarily need to defeat Russia's army to accomplish that. To take over/occupy Ukraine Putin's forces need to defeat the entire Ukraine military. Of course Russia could keep lobbing missiles into Ukraine but to what end, punishment? Doing that is not going to gain them any territory.
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The first casualty of war is the truth.
[ Greek dramatist Aeschylus ]
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07-10-2023, 08:21 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 8,310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickeyM
Not to put too fine a point on it but Ukraine need only push Putin's army back across the border. They don't necessarily need to defeat Russia's army to accomplish that. To take over/occupy Ukraine Putin's forces need to defeat the entire Ukraine military. Of course Russia could keep lobbing missiles into Ukraine but to what end, punishment? Doing that is not going to gain them any territory.
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What it could gain them is war criminal status, which would keep Putin and a whole bunch of the Russian military leadership locked into their fucked up country for the rest of their lives. Not that they care, I suppose.
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07-10-2023, 09:23 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 13,135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow
Not exactly. "Russia has lost nearly half the combat effectiveness of its army," Radakin said, according to the Financial Times. "Last year, it fired 10 million artillery shells, but at best, can produce 1 million shells a year. It has lost 2,500 tanks and, at best, can produce 200 tanks a year."
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukra...fensive-2023-7 |
Which is why Russia is buying (or buying back) arms from other countries, likely in exchange for oil and natural gas.
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07-10-2023, 11:09 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Sierras
Posts: 15,279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
Which is why Russia is buying (or buying back) arms from other countries, likely in exchange for oil and natural gas.
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From what we know, only Iran and NK are supplying arms to Russia. Doubt China or India would dare step up.
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The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite. Thomas Jefferson
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07-10-2023, 11:50 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 8,310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
Which is why Russia is buying (or buying back) arms from other countries, likely in exchange for oil and natural gas.
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Yep. Pretty fucking pathetic, aint it? The Russians have always sucked at combat logistics and supply.
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