U.S. judge questions special counsel's powers in Manafort case

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

NONE of whom have been indicted for anything to do with "collusion". That's the essential point of the judge's comments. Investigating an actual crime: that's fine. Destroying people's lives in search of a crime, not so much. But, hey, if the dutiful search for a crime leaves destruction in its wake that impacts only folks you have a political disagreement with, I guess that's just fine with you.

You actually believe that Mueller and the SDNY aren't investigating actual crimes (or that the crimes Manafort is currently charged with aren't crimes)? I suppose if that helps you sleep at night, continue believing the unbelievable. Once Mueller's and SDNY's hammers come down on the extended Trump crime family, it will be interesting to hear the spin you come up with to help you rationalize your continued support of such an obvious con man. I'm guessing you'll just parrot Limbaugh, Hannity and the rest of the wingnut media, as you always seem to do.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

You actually believe that Mueller and the SDNY aren't investigating actual crimes (or that the crimes Manafort is currently charged with aren't crimes)? I suppose if that helps you sleep at night, continue believing the unbelievable. Once Mueller's and SDNY's hammers come down on the extended Trump crime family, it will be interesting to hear the spin you come up with to help you rationalize your continued support of such an obvious con man.

Sure I do, and there's ample proof of that. For example, Comey told Congress during his testimony that no one at the FBI thought that Flynn had lied to them. And yet, Flynn plead guilty to lying to the FBI. Now, you can speculate all you want about why Flynn agreed to plea, but there's ZERO evidence that Flynn's plea has anything to do with Trump's campaign or Russian "collusion".

You can also speculate all you want about the other pleas, none of which indicate the Flynn has any evidence of "Russian collusion". The indictments also have nothing to do with "Russian collusion".

So, if Mueller's charter is to investigate "Russian collusion", where's evidence of the crime? There is none, and Mueller can apparently look for one all he wants, and destroy anyone he wants in the process. Unless, of course, some adults step in and reign him in.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by whell

Sure I do, and there's ample proof of that. For example, Comey told Congress during his testimony that no one at the FBI thought that Flynn had lied to them. And yet, Flynn plead guilty to lying to the FBI. Now, you can speculate all you want about why Flynn agreed to plea, but there's ZERO evidence that Flynn's plea has anything to do with Trump's campaign or Russian "collusion".

You can also speculate all you want about the other pleas, none of which indicate the Flynn has any evidence of "Russian collusion". The indictments also have nothing to do with "Russian collusion".

So, if Mueller's charter is to investigate "Russian collusion", where's evidence of the crime? There is none, and Mueller can apparently look for one all he wants, and destroy anyone he wants in the process. Unless, of course, some adults step in and reign him in.

Extremely cogent.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Extremely cogent.

To a Putin-hugger.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

... Comey told Congress during his testimony that no one at the FBI thought that Flynn had lied to them...

Show me the exact quote from Comey in which he said that. While you're (unsuccessfully) looking for it, here's an exact quote from Michael Flynn after his guilty plea:

“After over 33 years of military service to our country, including nearly five years in combat away from my family, and then my decision to continue to serve the United States, it has been extraordinarily painful to endure these many months of false accusations of ‘treason’ and other outrageous acts. Such false accusations are contrary to everything I have ever done and stood for. But I recognize that the actions I acknowledged in court today were wrong, and, through my faith in God, I am working to set things right. My guilty plea and agreement to cooperate with the special counsel’s office reflect a decision I made in the best interest of my family and of country. I accept fully responsibility for my actions.”

If you're actually interested in the specifics of Flynn's lies to which he pleaded guilty, here are the court documents. Knowing you, you'd rather rely on Devin Nunes' mischaracterization of events in support of your Dear Leader.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/michael-...ment-documents

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Show me the exact quote from Comey in which he said that.

Need someone to do your homework for you? OK, fine.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/b...rticle/2648896

According to two sources familiar with the meetings, Comey told lawmakers that the FBI agents who interviewed Flynn did not believe that Flynn had lied to them, or that any inaccuracies in his answers were intentional. As a result, some of those in attendance came away with the impression that Flynn would not be charged with a crime pertaining to the Jan. 24 interview.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/16/polit...ynn/index.html

The FBI interviewers believed Flynn was cooperative and provided truthful answers. Although Flynn didn't remember all of what he talked about, they don't believe he was intentionally misleading them, the officials say.

Further, then-acting Attorney General Sally Yates delayed notifying the White House until after Flynn was interviewed. At that point, FBI Director James Comey did not object to notifying the White House counsel.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-s...two-agents-who

The report claims that these top FBI and Justice Department officials had different answers regarding whether the agents were “investigating misleading statements to the Vice President, which the Vice President echoed publicly about the content of this calls; a possible violation of the Logan Act; or a desire top obtain more information as part of the counterintelligence investigation into General Flynn.”

The report notes that Comey testified that “the agents … discerned no physical indications of deception. They didn’t see any change in posture, in tone, in inflection, in eye contact. They saw nothing that indicated to them that he knew he was lying to them.”

So, York reported about it recently. CNN had a story about the FBI's take on Flynn's testimony back in Feb, and the Hill quotes the same thing from the House intel report as part of Comey's testimony. Three sources state that the FBI, including Comey, didn't think Flynn lied to them.

So, Flynn cops to a plea for lying when he apparently didn't lie. See?
Opening your mind and learning things isn't that hard. You might have to get your news from somewhere besides just WaPo and Media Matters, though.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Need someone to do your homework for you? OK, fine...

There's not a single direct quote above from the (sealed) transcript of Comey's testimony. Below is what I appended to my post above you probably didn't see before you composed your bogus response.

Show me the exact quote from Comey in which he said that. While you're (unsuccessfully) looking for it, here's an exact quote from Michael Flynn after his guilty plea:

“After over 33 years of military service to our country, including nearly five years in combat away from my family, and then my decision to continue to serve the United States, it has been extraordinarily painful to endure these many months of false accusations of ‘treason’ and other outrageous acts. Such false accusations are contrary to everything I have ever done and stood for. But I recognize that the actions I acknowledged in court today were wrong, and, through my faith in God, I am working to set things right. My guilty plea and agreement to cooperate with the special counsel’s office reflect a decision I made in the best interest of my family and of country. I accept fully responsibility for my actions.”

If you're actually interested in the specifics of Flynn's lies to which he pleaded guilty, here are the court documents. Knowing you, you'd rather rely on Devin Nunes' mischaracterization of events in support of your Dear Leader.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/michael-...ment-documents

Flynn agreed with the laundry list of lies and omissions in the charging document and signed the following statement on the bottom of the plea deal:

I have read every page of this Agreement and have discussed it with my attorneys, Robert
K. Kelner and Stephen P. Anthony. I fully understand this Agreement and agree to it without
reservation. I do this voluntarily and of my own free will, intending to be legally bound. No
threats have been made to me nor am I under the influence of anything that could impede my
ability to understand this Agreement fully. I am pleading guilty because I am in fact guilty of the
offense identified in this Agreement.

I reaffirm that absolutely no promises, agreements, understandings, or conditions have
been made or entered into in connection with my decision to plead guilty except those set forth
in this Agreement. I am satisfied with the legal services provided by my attorneys in connection
with this Agreement and matters related to it.

[whell]

Originally Posted by finnbow

There's not a single direct quote above from the (sealed) transcript of Comey's testimony. Below is what I appended to my post above you probably didn't see before you composed your bogus response.

There's no need for a "direct quote". CNN reported that the FBI didn't think Flynn lied. That is then backed up by York's piece and the House Intel Report. Three sources.

Try it another way: do YOU think Flynn lied to the FBI, given what is out there in the press about the FBI's comments about their interview with him?

Here it is again in the WSJ: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mys...trending_now_1

On pages 53-54, the report notes that in March 2017 “Director Comey testified to the Committee that ‘the agents . . . discerned no physical indications of deception. They didn’t see any change in posture, in tone, in inflection, in eye contact. They saw nothing that indicated to them that he knew he was lying to them.’” The quotes are from the committee transcript of Mr. Comey’s remarks.

The report goes on to say that then Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe “confirmed the interviewing agent’s initial impression and stated that the ‘conundrum that we faced on their return from the interview is that although [the agents] didn’t detect deception in the statements that he made in the interview . . . the statements were inconsistent with our understanding of the conversation that he had actually had with the ambassador.’”

Recall that the inconsistency concerned whether Mr. Flynn had discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with the Russian ambassador to the U.S. Vice President Mike Pence had said publicly that Mr. Flynn had not discussed sanctions, and once it came to light that he had, Mr. Flynn resigned.

But Mr. McCabe also nonetheless told the House Intelligence Committee that “‘the two people who interviewed [Flynn] didn’t think he was lying, [which] was not [a] great beginning of a false statement case.’”

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

There's no need for a "direct quote". CNN reported that the FBI didn't think Flynn lied. That is then backed up by York's piece and the House Intel Report. Three sources.

You said Comey testified that Flynn didn't lie based upon three sources that reflect the very same bogus Nunes' report (the very same Nunes who has admitted not even reading materials upon which he based his report)? Read the charging documents and Flynn's plea above if you want sworn court testimony and documents and not bogus BS from the Midnight Rider Nunes. Basing your opinions on Nunes' honesty and integrity are a fool's errand.