Another church mass killing

[Pio1980]

Commercial carpet bombing the country with tactical weaponry since the "assault rifle" ban expired clearly hasn't made us safer, or better in any meaningful sense.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Didn't see the context of this response but if its in the context of the Obama - era EO that he repealed (the NBC article you posted), then the response is accurate. Sorry if accurate responses to questions appear to be sophistry to you.

It had nothing to did with his ignorant EO, it was a response to a question as to whether he would support "extreme vetting" for gun purchases,

SEOUL — President Trump on Tuesday asserted that tougher gun laws would not have stopped the mass shooting in Sutherland Springs, Tex., last weekend and that “hundreds more” would have died had another man not been able to “neutralize” the alleged killer with a gun of his own.

He then answered by saying, “If you did what you're suggesting, there would have been no difference three days ago.” Devin Patrick Kelley opened fire with a semiautomatic rifle, killing 26 people in a church. Another man, Stephen Willeford, later grabbed his own gun and exchanged fire with Kelley outside the church. Police found Kelley dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, but authorities called Willeford a “hero" and said he helped stop Kelley.

Trump referred to Willeford as a “brave man” and said, “If he didn't have a gun, instead of having 26 dead, you would have had hundreds more dead.... Not going to help.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-were-tougher/

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by whell

Sounds like he's simply repeating - then embellishing a bit as he's prone to do - the words of the local law enforcement, media and CNN. Beyond the embellishment, what's wrong with that?

Here's a complete takedown of Trump's ridiculous claim.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...e-gun-control/

[ebacon]

Originally Posted by MrPots

I'm not sure anyone really cares anymore.

I will go on the record as being burned out on the shooting and gun debate bullshit in this country.

In high school I had an electronics teacher that was also an Army reservist. We got into an argument as to why I like to shoot guns. My position was that I enjoyed the physics of how to put projectiles in the bullseye. He told me bullshit, what was really in my mind was that I wanted to perfect shooting someone.

His position struck me as odd. Perhaps he did not know that my grandfather was a competitive shooter and I was raised on paper targets. My Army father also scolded me for pointing a pistol hand gesture at people on TV. As an Army brat I have a black/white level of contrast between paper targets and human targets.

Back to my teacher and his position that shooting practice is for killing. If I put myself in his shoes then I might know what it is like to be shot at and be forced to return fire. A lot of the world would make sense then, e.g. professional concealed carry instructors teaching their students to not shoot unless a weapon is pointed at them; the old saying of don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes, etc. But I have never been in his shoes. I have never been forced to shoot accurately at someone that is pointing a weapon at me.

Instead, as a responsible gun owner, I am forced to fight with words and explain what might make a person shoot first. My suspicion is that shooters feel like they are out of options as to how to contribute to society, so they choose martyrdom.

If leaders are seriously interested in reducing shootings then they need to work together to provide meaningful work for their citizens and employees. By meaningful work I mean work that pays bills through arm length transactions. Volunteer work, by my definition, is not meaningful. It does not pay bills. However volunteer workers do provide guidance for leaders as to what kind of jobs are meaningful.

Please don't shoot me for hating on the spirit of the Thousand Points of Light.

[bobabode]

I'm done with the debate too. All of you so-called responsible gun owners had your chance, over and over and over again. The bodies keep piling up while you mewl about your fucking god given rights to own mil-spec hardware.

Melt 'em down, melt 'em all down.

[Rajoo]

This will be blamed on Obama's Air Force.

[MrPots]

Originally Posted by ebacon

I will go on the record as being burned out on the shooting and gun debate bullshit in this country.

In high school I had an electronics teacher that was also an Army reservist. We got into an argument as to why I like to shoot guns. My position was that I enjoyed the physics of how to put projectiles in the bullseye. He told me bullshit, what was really in my mind was that I wanted to perfect shooting someone.

His position struck me as odd. Perhaps he did not know that my grandfather was a competitive shooter and I was raised on paper targets. My Army father also scolded me for pointing a pistol hand gesture at people on TV. As an Army brat I have a black/white level of contrast between paper targets and human targets.

Back to my teacher and his position that shooting practice is for killing. If I put myself in his shoes then I might know what it is like to be shot at and be forced to return fire. A lot of the world would make sense then, e.g. professional concealed carry instructors teaching their students to not shoot unless a weapon is pointed at them; the old saying of don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes, etc. But I have never been in his shoes. I have never been forced to shoot accurately at someone that is pointing a weapon at me.

Instead, as a responsible gun owner, I am forced to fight with words and explain what might make a person shoot first. My suspicion is that shooters feel like they are out of options as to how to contribute to society, so they choose martyrdom.

If leaders are seriously interested in reducing shootings then they need to work together to provide meaningful work for their citizens and employees. By meaningful work I mean work that pays bills through arm length transactions. Volunteer work, by my definition, is not meaningful. It does not pay bills. However volunteer workers do provide guidance for leaders as to what kind of jobs are meaningful.

Please don't shoot me for hating on the spirit of the Thousand Points of Light.

That's an interesting thought.

I strongly believe our culture of violence is also a contributor to the rise of mass shootings. We've made killing a game and victims are nothing but points to be scored. Violence permeates our entertainment via movies and television, and it obsesses our young through video games. Kill as many as you can and win a gold star. Perhaps this is too simplistic, but then sometimes the answer is the obvious choice.

[Oerets]

As a hopefully, to be considered a responsible "Gun Owner" with a CCP and registered weapons.
I have a suggestion on these issues raised by resent events.

Require a federal license for all firearms, one with a standardized instruction and implementation. Background checks and mental health evaluation.
Require any owner of deemed to be in the category of military be subject to carry insurance on them. With the intent to pay restitution to victims on events in the future.

Face it, as long as politicians are voted into office the guns are safe.


Barney

[Pio1980]

Safer than the victims, anyway..

[ebacon]

Originally Posted by MrPots

That's an interesting thought.

I strongly believe our culture of violence is also a contributor to the rise of mass shootings. We've made killing a game and victims are nothing but points to be scored. Violence permeates our entertainment via movies and television, and it obsesses our young through video games. Kill as many as you can and win a gold star. Perhaps this is too simplistic, but then sometimes the answer is the obvious choice.

I agree. There is a natural tendency to need to win. That's Darwinism.

As a lawyer though, I need to cock my head and think deeper than mere survival. After all I will not die if I lose a debate. I might be poorer and not make headlines, but at least I participated. Even Supreme Court justices lose but they have the courage to write dissenting opinions.

With regard to mass shootings, I have written on the internet for years that there is something deeper going on with violence in America. This is a noisy place to live and our economic policies squeeze us into win-lose situations. Make or break is in our vocabulary. That is an effed-up level of contrast for daily living. People crack and I do not blame them. I continue to blame our policies.