Trumps is in!

[ZeroJunk]

Look, the guy sat in there for 3 hours and killed 49 people. And, you are going to tell me that the dead people's odds were better than if there had been a few good old boys in there armed ?

Who is regurgitating whose talking points ?

[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Yeah sure, the good guy with a snub nose .38, once the bullet leaves that 1-3/4" barrel who knows where it is going. Plus the good guy is so nervous he is waving it around like a flag in a high wind. But they sure can talk the good fight. Have you ever killed anyone ZJ? Most people will hesitate before pulling the trigger.

I don't think anybody has carried a snub nose 38 since Danny Glover..

Nobody, I mean nobody is going to hesitate shooting somebody who is mowing down innocent people. Nobody. Might miss.

Very few people have ever killed anybody, including cops and even military.

But, you talk about being a psychopath . If you can watch somebody kill 49 people and not shoot him you are one.

[Pio1980]

The likelihood of someone going into a dance club like this to dance and mingle with a firearm is beyond remote. Try to imagine keeping it concealed, dry, off the floor, yet ready for action dressed in typical clubwear.

Otherwise,
Imagine a darkish noisy crowded venue where everyone was packing.
Imagine a free-fire frenzy if everyone who was packing drew and fired in the general direction of whomever else was shooting. Try to imagine a circular firing squad.


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[icenine]

Originally Posted by Rajoo

Ice, let's take it one step further. Say the off duty policeman/security guard is ex-special forces and a highly trained sharpshooter, cool under pressure etc. If he took a pot shot at the assassin, he will be one of the first ones dead, no match against an automatic (just to piss JJ3 off) assault weapon and then will be of no help to anyone. So staying alive and finding a tactical spot is his first priority.

Carnage will continue regardless. So Zero is simply parroting the NRA talking points and TJ is being intentionally dense on this topic. God guys with guns and no gun free zones are just promotional dialog for the gun manufacturers represented by the NRA.

Yes you are correct. And the thing is the policeman at the facility that night moonlighting is a trained professional. And it was still very, very difficult even for them.

[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by icenine

Yes you are correct. And the thing is the policeman at the facility that night moonlighting is a trained professional. And it was still very, very difficult even for them.

Sure it is. If a gunman is shooting at you that is different no matter how prepared you are. But, if he is shooting at somebody else and is not aware of you at all it is a simple matter of mechanics. And, whether you have the will to do it or not.

[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

The likelihood of someone going into a dance club like this to dance and mingle with a firearm is beyond remote. Try to imagine keeping it concealed, dry, off the floor, yet ready for action dressed in typical clubwear.

Otherwise,
Imagine a darkish noisy crowded venue where everyone was packing.
Imagine a free-fire frenzy if everyone who was packing drew and fired in the general direction of whomever else was shooting. Try to imagine a circular firing squad.


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So, you are thinking more than 49 would have been killed.

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

So, you are thinking more than 49 would have been killed.

Possibly, yes, under these chaotic circumstances.

What would I have done under these cdx assuming I had my usual carry? Hard to say, depending on the arms and skill level of the shooter. A Typical perp off the street with, say, an autoloader with a 10 round mag would give him 10 shots before I could hopefully swarm him and disarm him or deliver a headshot while he was reloading, assuming I wasn't shot myself. A skilled shooter with a high capacity rapid fire weapon and extra mags would give me little oportunity to deliver a disabling shot, assuming I wasn't one of the victims.

I'm pretty good at mentally analogue modeling various scenarios from troubleshooting circuits and mechanisms. This isn't that much different if one includes human psychology.

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[ZeroJunk]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

Possibly, yes, under these chaotic circumstances.

What would I have done under these cdx assuming I had my usual carry? Hard to say, depending on the arms and skill level of the shooter. A Typical perp off the street with, say, an autoloader with a 10 round mag would give him 10 shots before I could hopefully swarm him and disarm him or deliver a headshot while he was reloading, assuming I wasn't shot myself. A skilled shooter with a high capacity rapid fire weapon and extra mags would give me little oportunity to deliver a disabling shot, assuming I wasn't one of the victims.

I'm pretty good at mentally analogue modeling various scenarios from troubleshooting circuits and mechanisms. This isn't that much different if one includes human psychology.

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My point is that there were more than 300 people in the club. So, the odds of him zeroing in on you are pretty small. You might fall all to pieces or you may rest your hands on something and put one in the back of his head. I would prefer that somebody have that opportunity myself whether they failed or not.

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

My point is that there were more than 300 people in the club. So, the odds of him zeroing in on you are pretty small. You might fall all to pieces or you may rest your hands on something and put one in the back of his head. I would prefer that somebody have that opportunity myself whether they failed or not.

So would I, but the 2nd amendment fundamentalists think any and all village idiots are entitled by law to military grade tactical weaponry capable of mass mayhem, which reduces the chances of defensive action.

Totally eliminating the hazard of public place shooting is improbable, but reducing the supply of the milspec stuff the public at large has no legitimate use or need for was lost when full auto and silencers were sanctioned and these types weren't.
As it is, overcommercialization of firearms to support the industry has flooded the country with a ready supply to the criminal element thru straw purchases, gun show sales, and theft. This is not rational policy, or as could be said about many questionable practices, it may not be ethical but it is perfectly legal.


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[Zeke]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

...rest your hands on something and put one in the back of his head.

This is either just not knowing humans under duress or the chaos of a firefight. Nobody is just putting one "in this guy's head" while his back is turned. You've better odds at a half court bucket wearing a blindfold and a partner facing you the correct general direction.

If (a HUGE if!) you get a shot? You're going to miss. That makes it worse for anyone in the room.

Again, the true pro here seeks cover, concealment and make-him-come-to-you: regardless of being armed. Anything else is sheer Gung Ho stupidity.