Qualifications? Do we need them?

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by noonereal

I have not clicked your link yet but can answer your two questions from life experience, no to both.lthough this is taken into consideration for middle and low level jobs when it comes to hiring people that you can actually feed a family on it comes down to who you know.
This is why the biggest determiner of future success at birth is your parents socioeconomic standing.

I have tended to agree with you on a lot of stuff, but not on the socioeco stuff.

Anyone can pull themselves up in this country with hard work and sweat.

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

I have tended to agree with you on a lot of stuff, but not on the socioeco stuff.

Anyone can pull themselves up in this country with hard work and sweat.

QFT!

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Anyone can pull themselves up in this country with hard work and sweat.

I don't buy that.

Having worked in corrections, parole, law enforcement, social service, etc.

There are some people who are just born behind the 8-ball, with no chance at all...

[JCricket]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

I have tended to agree with you on a lot of stuff, but not on the socioeco stuff.

Anyone can pull themselves up in this country with hard work and sweat.

Hey Grumpy,
Um, I disagree. ANyone who has the ability to work and sweat, and has the intelligence or vision to pick a direction can pull themselves up.

I think this goes to the root of the problem with generational welfare. People can lose site of what it is to work and have a job. They can lose the ability to look forward and plan ahead. I am not sure quite how to explain this, but I know this is a real problem.

Also, there are the situations where it is impossible for some people to work, lets say a widow with 5 kids. How does she do it? Daycare and otehr expenses make it impossible to do so. Yeah, that is kind of a rarity, but the point is some people cannot work.

I imagine I'll catch some flack on this, so fire away. kevlar and asbestos is on.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

I have tended to agree with you on a lot of stuff, but not on the socioeco stuff.

Anyone can pull themselves up in this country with hard work and sweat.

Hard work and sweat improve your odds, but they are no guarantee of success. Good workers can lose jobs because of nepotism, false accusations, absences caused by an illness, or just on the whim of a boss. I know you can learn a new skill, find another job, but even a small period of unemployment can set folks way back. In addition, in many jobs, they will start without benefits, start low on the pay-scale, and high on the layoff list. Not everyone has the temperament or wherewithal to start a business - and more than half of new businesses fail.

Some people won't let a layoff, a business failure, or other setbacks stop them, but that's not everyone. There are some people who are fortunate to have found the right position, and to not have to deal with the major setbacks. No telling whether those people who "succeeded" would have been able to deal with the setbacks faced by others. It's a crapshoot, a combination of genetic blessings, upbringing, timely opportunities, and/or having been blessed with substantial fortitude.

Most certainly obstacles can be overcome. Hard work, and perseverance increase the chances of success, but some people are just gonna shoot double aces.

Regards,

D-Ray

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

I have tended to agree with you on a lot of stuff, but not on the socioeco stuff.

Anyone can pull themselves up in this country with hard work and sweat.

Fair enough but study after study concludes that "the biggest determiner of future success at birth is your parents socioeconomic standing."

An exception to the norm does not make the norm invalid.

I know I have posted this many times before but many of the poorest people I have know have been the hardest working.
Think about all the Mexicans doing the crappy jobs you and I wont do. Do you really think that one day they will be wealthy? I am sure it happens but far less than 1% of the time.

BTW, (again you won't agree) after "knowing people", luck (right time right place) has the biggest impact.

Hard work and thrift will likely make you comfortable in the US but wealthy never.