Roseburg, Oregon School Shooting

[Boreas]

"Look stuff happens, there's always a crisis and the impulse is always to do something and it's not always the right thing to do," Bush said at the Conservative Leadership Project in Greenville, South Carolina, referring to taking away rights.

Sounds like Rumsfeld on Iraq.

But Jeb! is his own man.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by barbara

More on the topic of guns:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...cond-amendment

Okamoto! What is she, some sort of a Jap?

[barbara]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Okamoto! What is she, some sort of a Jap?

Maybe she is one of those immigrants Trump wants to send home. 😉

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Sounds like Rumsfeld on Iraq.

But Jeb! is his own man.

The interesting comment I heard at work last night was:

"So what? People die every day anyways. You can't have freedom AND security at the same time, it doesn't work that way. People are going to die because we have the right to own guns and that's just how it is............."

For my part, I don't see how having to carry a loaded weapon everywhere I go and constantly be concerned that some asshole is going to shoot me can be called "freedom". (Simply because "Assholes have the right to carry guns too.".)

I feel much more free being able to go about my business and not have to worry about it at all. But, that's me, I'm crazy that way.

[JBS...]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The data from Mother Jones that I used is data, not opinion. It is dates and interger numbers. Mother Jones gives sources.

Facts are stubborn things; they don't go away because you add a mild vulgarity to a magazine name.

It's true, numbers are numbers. But, what were MJ's numbers? what were the parameters and criteria for inclusion in its mass shootings stats and was applied consistently through out the study?

criteria
The killings were carried out by a lone shooter. (Except in the case of the Columbine massacre and the Westside Middle School killings, both of which involved two shooters.)

The shootings happened during a single incident and in a public place. (Public, except in the case of a party in Crandon, Wisconsin, and another in Seattle.) Crimes primarily related to armed robbery or gang activity are not included.

The shooter took the lives of at least four people. An FBI crime classification report identifies an individual as a mass murderer-as opposed to a spree killer or a serial killer-if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), and typically in a single location.

If the shooter died or was hurt from injuries sustained during the incident, he is included in the total victim count. (But we have excluded cases in which there were three fatalities and the shooter also died, per the previous criterion.)

We included six so-called "spree killings"-prominent cases that fit closely with our above criteria for mass murder, but in which the killings occurred in multiple locations over a short period of time.


"some" samples of what was left out based on MJ's criteria.

Browns Chicken robbery/massacre of seven victims that occurred 1993

Massacre of 14 relatives and two others by R. Gene Simmons of Russellville, Ark. in 1987.

Other massive shootings, like the execution-style slaughter of 13 in a Seattle club in 1983
...


Unlike the MJ's approach the figure below displays the number of mass shootings -- incidents and victims -- from 1976 through 2011. These reflect all mass shootings in which at least four victims were killed that had been reported to the FBI by local law enforcement authorities as part of the routine collection of crime statistics




Do you see a trend upward or downward in these numbers Don?

They look pretty random to me.

[BlueStreak]

Jim;

Overall, what has the gun ownership level in this country done to reduce gun related violence, compared to other "first world" countries not at war?

From what I'm seeing it doesn't look very good.

Maybe you see something else? I honestly don't know how you could.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by JBS...

Do you see a trend upward or downward in these numbers Don?

They look pretty random to me.

I noticed the conspicuous absence of your source.

That puts me at a disadvantage were I want to come up with a brilliant retort such as "Mother Pucking Jones"

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by JBS...

Do you see a trend upward or downward in these numbers Don?

Do you see a difference in what is being assessed in these two charts?

The Mother Jones graph shows the number of incidents vs. fatalities. Your chart, uncredited I might add, shows incidents vs. victims. This can change the data significantly. For instance, in the Aurora shooting there were 12 fatalities and 70 victims. Newtown is the exact opposite scenario with 28 fatalities and 30 victims.

[Pio1980]

Let's see, more guns can let us shoot our way clear of an overabundance of guns and no effective personal accountability for competence.
FWIW, this homicidal asshole had a legally acquired private arsenal under present conditions.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Do you see a difference in what is being assessed in these two charts?

The Mother Jones graph shows the number of incidents vs. fatalities. Your chart, uncredited I might add, shows incidents vs. victims. This can change the data significantly. For instance, in the Aurora shooting there were 12 fatalities and 70 victims. Newtown is the exact opposite scenario with 28 fatalities and 30 victims.

Mother Jones data, my graph.

I could have graphed 'total victims,' MJ gives those numbers. I chose to go with fatalities because it's unambiguous. 'Victims' could include anything from 'permanently on life support' to 'broke a fingernail.'